bill_mcg

You go to the point next above your present salary

Richard

If any mere mortal here had taken the trouble to ask what was going on they would have been told. Most of the ignorance about the procedures has been due to peoples appathy, EBME techs excluded.

It's apparent to me that each SHA and associated trusts have their own spin on JDs, the AfC matching process, protection, etc, etc. The whole process probably depends upon local conditions affecting the workforce, local finances, trust management style and how HR chooses to apply the process. So fair pay for a fair days work depends upon where you work I think and even whether local management is willing to adapt individuals job-roles to match certain profiles prior to AfC in order to keep a core of staff post AfC. This is my perception based on what I read, what I see and what I hear and how I intrpret it in the absence of anything that contradicts it.

I have a BEng and it will not make one bit of difference to my matching due to my JD requiring a technician to repair electronics stuff only requires a HNC. If I was a Professor it would not make the slighest difference either.

I am the only engineer in my role (MTO 3 eletronics, the standard type of thing.) to have a BEng so it can never be included as we all do the same work.

I asked for an individaul JD, but I was told i did not qualify as it is the role that is assested and not the person.

If I've been misadvised, then I'm not surprised as our trust would not accept our national profiles were under review as they had not seen the notice and would not believe me. Yesterdays profiles proved I was correct.

Tracy

Andy F,

The problem is that your current grade has no bearing on AfC matching. Matchers, who, incidentally, are not allowed to be working in the same job-role as the JDs they're matching hence they're lay-persons, just see a JD that contains your current Job-specification. Not a future, intended, or previous role but a JD that should currently reflect what you're doing. The problem I have is that it doesn't take into account the value-added skills and experience that individuals bring to their job by virtue of their qualifications, skills and knowledge plus the other factors like being hard-working for instance. Matchers are not even allowed to see the current grade, e.g. MTO3***, of the JD they're matching.

In fact now HNC is the entry-level for band 4, in the national job-profiles, I can see that many technicians whose current job-role states "HNC required as a minimum" (the majority I would have thought) may be matched to band 4. They'll be lucky to achieve Band 5 using the extra points their current responsibilities allow them to accrue if they have HNC for factor 2, and this is possible even if they're performing the role of a JD equivalent to Band 6 in my opinion! This is because the points you earn may be "capped" to the maximum points attainable for each of the factors in the AfC band that you're initially matched to (for the purposes of carrying out matching) and the "deciding factor" may depend on the requirement in your JD for qualifications for example.

Thus one or two key-statements on a piece of paper that describe requirements or what you should be doing in that job role may determine where your going to be matched on a particular AfC band - possibly one where you can never achieve the points required to be where you (or your manager) want you to be at - irrespective of how much you currently do. That's not necessarily related to current grade, performance or ability. That's why it's so important to get involved in writing your own job-description for AfC - you're entitled to that and will have to "sign it off" to indicate agreement with it anyhow.

Tracy,

I think that I carry out a specialist role in the organisation where I work - providing specialist technical knowledge, clinical & technical support and work on specialised equipment, etc, etc - certainly more than what's required of an MTO3 on the bench for at least a significant proportion of the time and in times of need. The problem is, and has always been, the lack of formal recognition of this from managers I've worked for.

We shall be carrying out generic matching of MTO3s in our department I think. The difficulty is where will my managers pitch the generic level of qualifications required to do the job? This will significantly affect the matching process and where we all end up I think. However this still doesn't sort out my problem since I'll probably not be matched to a band that does not allow me to accrue enough points, despite any "additional responsibilites" that are recognised in my JD, to progress to band 6 despite having the knowledge, skills & training, plus carrying out many of the duties of a specialist.

All that AfC will achieve, personally speaking, is that if I'm awarded Band 5 I'll be be applying for as many specialist bands available in the area where I work, post AfC. I doubt there will be many and they will probably be fulfilled in-house. I meet the requirements, including Knowledge, experience, training, etc. If I can't get a specialist grade during my period of R&R or pay protection, if it applies, whatever, then it's quite simple I'll have to find something else outside the NHS and leave.

I think AfC is forcing employers into "uncharted waters" and will forcing many of us into making difficult decisions about what we're prepared to do, above and beyond our job-roles, post AfC.

Richard,

You may need to consider the work that you do which is "Specialised" and consider not doing it if you are Banded at 5. This is an issue that managers need to have an action plan - If their staff are carrying out specialised functions then they need to ensure that this is recognised!

Andy

Just edited my previous post as you posted that - Spooky!

Richard

If you are registered with the VRCT then you already meet the degree equivalent qualification.
Make sure that is on your JD for at least Band 5 then it's a fight to ensure that the equivalent knowledge that we all gain from experience in engineering is equated to Post Graduate Diploma! (our Trust is about to issue guidelines on experience gained in post against time).

If there is any doubt, the panel should have asked the manager what qaulifications and experience are required to replace you Now! My guess is that someone leaving college with an HNC and no experience would not be able to do your job - hence Band 4.

Must go and save some lives.... Cheers

Andy

Problem is "Catch-22" though isn't it? Agree to a JD that recognises what specialist roles you undertake yet has the statement "HNC minimum required" and hope that you can earn enough points, possibly whilst having points capped to band 4 or band 5 weighting, due to initial matching. If you only attain Band 5 you've still agreed to the specialist stuff in your JD. The management cannot "lose" if matching relies on one or two generic statements that apply to a group, including those in situations such as mine I think I'm in, into a Band.

Ideally what I and others in a similar situation need is to agree on a new JD now, before AfC, so that I can go for individual matching with the requirements for factor 2, factor 12 and other factors that influence matching on the specialist band to be pitched towards that. However we've already had our "restructures and tweaks" to achieve this where I work so I think I've missed the boat (again).

I think you misunderstand matching Andy - it's about matching the requirements of the job not the individual. I'm able to use my skills for specialist tasks and I'm asked to when required. I have formal technician training, 18yrs experience (10 yrs on MTO3??) and a B.Eng however, when push comes to shove, I expect, like in Tracy's experience, this will not be recognised for the purposes of matching. Goodwill and needs of the service is nothing to do with matching.

Thankfully I'm on leave so I don't have to go and save lives this week.

Richard,

I got caught doing admin.....Saving lives will just have to wait!

If the person spec states that to replace you then someone will need to be registered (or fullfils the requirments for registration) with the VRCT (or it's successor) then the degree aspect is covered from the requirements for joining the register. You are registered?

I have been Job Matching since September so I hope I know what I'm talking about. The main problem, I know we will have, if we come out at Band 5 is justifing 5+ years experience = post Grad diploma. This should be helped with the coming guidelines noted above.

As an aside, there are moves afoot to bring in a first degree in engineering that includes a lot of placement/experience time to replace the HNC/HND. So students will almost do an apprenticeship and degree at the same time - something that was talked about at an IIE meeting I attended last week.

I'm on leave too next week.

TTFN

Andy