Hello!
Sorry if this has been discussed in the past, but does anyone know of any trust giving R&R to EBME departments? I ask because here, all other estate staff have it (Electricians, Chippys et all ) and I cant see why we were left out. If anyone has advice on how to get the ball rolling, it would be much appreciated!
Thanks in advance!

Yes, we, a MPCE dept were awarded it, all £0.00 of it!
Annex R (i recall) of the AFC T&C states that for staff other than Estates workers (nationally agreed sum)the amount is to be set locally by the Trust so long as someone doesn't lose out. This means we have been awarded nowt unless Protection is needed and R&R is applied instead to make up any shortfall. This i think helps Trusts keep their results of those on Pay Protection down.
Topper

Tony, are you sure that EBME technicians are entitled to R & R if they're on protected pay?
We have several techies on protection in our department and despite valiant attempts by our manager, it has been indicated that our Trust may not consider EBME staff eligable for R & R payments.

An offical letter (4 pages) copied to each of us post AfC, outlining transfer to AfC, terms and conditions, etc, stated under "Recruitment and Retention premia" that our trust in the Manchester area is not "located in an area which currently attracts a High Cost Area pay supplement; therefore your post shall not attract such a payment."

"Should the Pay Review Body and/or Pay Negotiating Council make future recommendations that the geographic area in which the Trust operates shall attract a supplement you shall receive the value of the supplement."

and

"For the purposes of recruitment and retention certain posts or staff groups may attract a supplementary payment. The supplements or Recruitment and Retention Premia can be awarded nationally or locally and either on a short-term or long-term basis. If your job entitles you to a recruitment and retention premia, you will be advised of this in writing."

Seems, to me, that individual Trusts have been left to decide whether R&R is paid or not and for how long, if it is, despite the fact we're working in an occupation that the AfC handbook states is one of a number of occupational groups that should be entitled to accrue R&R premia.

It doesn't state anywhere in the AfC handbook what this payment should be, if it applies, so I guess it's been left at Trusts' discretion to decide whether or not to pay it and what this payment should be.

Perhaps it could or should have been agreed at the local level with assistance from the trades union, prior to AfC, or with justification afterwards, i.e. by demonstrating there was a significant vacancy factor for particular job roles, prior to AfC, or suggesting that there has been a significant loss of staff, post AfC.

Since local conditions change, RE: difficulty in recruiting and retaining staff, then I suppose a lack of R&R payments can be challenged at any time given evidence that it's difficult to recruit and retain staff and support from trades unions.

The "nationally agreed sum" for Estates tradesmen had been negotiated long time before AfC was implemented in our Trust. At a meeting outlining the AfC process we were informed that the payment quoted (£2700 p.a. at the time I think) was necessary to align proposed AfC gradings to industry rates and agreed with the unions.

Shins annex H of the afc final agreement lists the jobs for which it has been agreed that r&r should apply. These are :-

Chaplains
Clinical Coding Officers
Cytology Screeners
Dental Nurses, Hygienists, Technicians and Therapists
Estates Officers/Works Officers
Financial Accountants
Invoice Clerks
Biomedical Scientists
Payroll Team Leaders
Pharmacists
Qualified Maintenance Craftspersons
Qualified Maintenance Technicians
Qualified Medical Technical Officers
Qualified Midwives (new entrant)
Qualified Perfusionists

If you are in any of these groups you CANNOT be put on pay protection but MUST be given r&r to such a level that protection is not required (Qualified maintenance craftspersons and qualified maintenance technicians get a national set r&r that should exceed this).
Any attempt to avoid paying r&r for the above posts instead of pay protection is a clear and blatant breach of the afc agreement and should be raised with unions immiediatly. However if you didn't need pay protection as of 1/10/04 you won't get an r&r unless you're vetry lucky or classed as a qualified maintenance craftsperson or qualified maintenance technician.

I was also advised by our HR department that my job and banding attracted pay protection until March 2011. It took our AfC project manager to agree that I should receive long term R&R!

Also, remember that the R&R payment is subject to any cost of living increases, unlike the pay protection.

I was also advised by our HR department that my job and banding attracted pay protection until March 2011. It took our AfC project manager to agree that I should receive long term R&R!

Also, remember that the R&R payment is subject to any cost of living increases, unlike the pay protection.

Thanks Paul, just to clarify the latest position in our Trust.
We are deemed as being entitled to R & R only if we are losing out financially under afc. Since we (several of us) are on pay protection, it won't be applied at present.

If, however, when the period of pay protection comes to an end we are still financially worse of than we were before assimilation then it could 'kick in' to make up any deficit.

It does seem to contradict the information you have posted but that's the answer we're getting.

I recently received protected pay after the banding outcome from AfC, but there is no R&R payments.

As i understand it, protected pay is to make up the short fall after your take a pay cut from your banding.

The R&R payment is as it says.... extra cash as an incentive to retain staff who, if so wished, to work for "another manufacturer" who usually offer slightly higher pay conditions.

An estates guy told me he could earn more working in the building trade on a site or in the private sector, he received R&R to pull his pay up towards what he could earn elsewhere.

Shins & PaulKWJ

I think Paul Allum's interpretation is correct.

Terms & Conditions Annex R, Para 9 defines minumum level of R & R premium for the specified posts during the transition period. It says ...

Therefore, qualified MTOs should receive R&R, not protection.

Moreover, I think that if there are several individuals doing the same job (all have signed the same job description?) then they should all get the R&R premium - even if only one of them has lost out.

For example. Say if four techs all signed one generic job description. Now say three did OK and got modest rise but one of them was going to be £300 worse off. Then I think a R&R premium of £300 has to be applied to the post. So all four of them will get it. I don't think this should happen in practice (if there was significant differential prior to A4C why would odd one out sign generic JD? Surely he/she has extra duties/reponsibilites), however A4C has thrown up plenty of surprises!

Martin