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#20360 - 13/11/02 01:40 PM Re: DIRTY equipment  

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I'm glad you got that off your chest.......

#20361 - 13/11/02 07:17 PM Re: DIRTY equipment  

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Dave H,

Reading your post, above, was really fun and very informative. It referred to loads of issues and other stuff that I didn't even touch on in my posting, perhaps I did mis-interpret your posting(s) but I do think my concerns about paranoia may be justified laugh At least I'm left in no doubt that my flippant remarks about "promordial-sludge" hit the spot! Thanks for the interlude and keep scrubbing, I'm sure you'll get the sludge off eventually. wink

#20362 - 14/11/02 10:31 AM Re: DIRTY equipment  
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3
Ged Swinton Offline
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Ged Swinton  Offline
Newbie

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3
Isle of Man
Hi All

My 2p for what it's worth

I am a nurse who uses lots of medical equipment. I am also trying to help change the way we nurses work WITH EBME.
The problem of dirty equipment is a serious one. Users cannot put others at risk of contact with biohazardous material. The bottom line should be IF YOU USED IT YOU CLEAN IT! ,or delegate that responsibility to someone appropriately trained and protected to do so. If you find that your getting static from nurses on this issue ask them whose responsibility is it to dispose of sharps and why.(The same principle applies you used it you bin it.)

As a nurse I see infection control as a major part of my role and essential to patient care which is what everyone here is about(one way or another). The simple fact is that most nurses do not recognise the risk to others. And when faced with a choice between actual hands on patient care and cleaning a piece of kit I know what I chose.

I treat all procedures as a potentially biohazard and use universal precautions i.e. Gloves,apron, eye protection and handwashing. Surely EBME depts could do likewise as some of the spaces in equipment that can get containinated are not accessable for non-technical staff.

After saying that, the user is ultimately responsible for the cleaning of the equipment regardless of their academic qualifications need training in the local policies and procedures in cleaning equipment. Do they all get it?? Are they fully aware of their personal responsibilties under the health and safety at work act, Local infection control policies etc etc??

Equipment is often cleaned using inappropriate solvents/agents because no-one has told the person cleaning it that it can only be cleaned using XYZ and that sticking it in a bucket of soapy water is probably not the best way to clean it.

Does anyone involve your infection control people in your pre-purchase evaluation. I have heard of expensive equipment being purchased by surgeons that cannot be cleaned/sterilised because the hospital don't have the right type of v expensive cleaning kit.

Just a thought or 2

#20363 - 14/11/02 11:44 AM Re: DIRTY equipment  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 45
The Duke Offline
Technologist
The Duke  Offline
Technologist

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 45
Sellafield
laugh Dave H 1 frown Richard 0

"BACK OF THE NET"


drink anyone?
#20364 - 14/11/02 12:08 PM Re: DIRTY equipment  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 230
BSM Offline
Master
BSM  Offline
Master

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 230
UK
At our hospital, the powers that be have tried to implimenta system whereby the ward staff must complete a decontamination cert. & attach it to the faulty equipment before we will pick it up.

This is great in theory, except that the staff need to know about the system, have the correct paperwork and have time to do it.

It makes no provision for PPM work where you may turn up unannounced, or where it is a priority job/call out.

These issues have been raised by staff but any solution seems to have been 'put on the back-burner' as it were.

In the meantime, we continue as we did before the invention of this 'cover your ass at all costs' mentality which seems to be prevalent today.

I thought we were supposed to work towards a 'paperless society', presumably to save the environment? frown

#20365 - 14/11/02 12:09 PM Re: DIRTY equipment  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 391
Dave H Offline
Sage
Dave H  Offline
Sage

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 391
Liverpool
Good comments Ged laugh

I think your approach is spot on laugh

There has been a lot of "finger pointing" and "mud slinging" so far on this topic but your viewpoints are the way to go, inmy opinion.

Everybody is busy, everybody is under pressure to perform all the tasks required of them.

I know the issue is important but due to lack of finance, staff, space, time etc the argument tends to end up, as it has here, as a "pass the buck" exercise.

When we stand back and take stock, the issues that you have raised Ged stand out.

We need to accept that cleaning of equipment is vital and that the control measures needed to be put in place can't be swept under the carpet due to a lack of finance, staff, training, space etc.

I think management has to accept that it is a core issue and should be handled accordingly.

In my experience this has not been the case. It has been left to nursing staff, ward/department managers, EBME and teams like Control of Infection to sort out by themselves.

With the best will in the world we will not get passed what we have seen here, people having different solutions to how the problem should be solved.

Issues raised here by numerous people to do with dedicated cleaners, staff training, staff responsibility, EBME involvment etc etc are all relevant.

They are however, fragmented.

I know I've been emotive on this subject, it's because I see it as a crucial issue.

I would love to be able to say to my Trust, "Here is what we should be doing and this is what it is going to take/cost"

Unfortunately our system, whilst not the worst I've ever seen, is not perfect. It has evolved rather than been designed.

It would take a radical re-think to change to something we could be rightly proud of.
It would also take time, effort and resource and that is the problem.
frown


Why worry, Be happy!
#20366 - 14/11/02 04:28 PM Re: DIRTY equipment  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 193
Chris-H Offline
Mentor
Chris-H  Offline
Mentor

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 193
an NHS Trust in London
Yeap.
You cannot enforce what cannot be enforced!

Just accept it !

We are defeated comrades.

Chris-H eek

P.S (I am liking me new avtar image, although he seems a bit too hyperactive at the moment)


Ours is not to reason why?,
Simply obey & then comply !
#20367 - 15/11/02 12:03 AM Re: DIRTY equipment  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 270
Mark.E Offline
Master
Mark.E  Offline
Master

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 270
NW
There ya go again Richard mis-interpreting me!
But I don't hold it against ya eek

I thought Jill comments where on the nail, and I whole heartedly agreed with her.

Anyway Richard since when have I been your agent! rolleyes
Perhaps next time I see ya it won't be raining and I can actually talk to you.. regards
and best wishes for Xmas

#20368 - 15/11/02 04:50 PM Re: DIRTY equipment  
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 123
WOM Davis Offline
Savant
WOM Davis  Offline
Savant

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 123
Glasgow UK
Ged Swinton's input :-
“I treat all procedures as a potentially biohazard and use universal precautions i.e. Gloves, apron, eye protection and hand-washing. Surely EBME depts could do likewise as some of the spaces in equipment that can get contaminated are not accessible for non-technical staff.”
is the least risk path for us all.

Yes we should expect equipment sent to our departments to be externally clean but also be aware of the possibility of contamination e.g. behind the pump door cover etc.

Along with oil/gas production, marine, nuclear and powerline engineers, medical engineers are exposed to work place hazards. One of ours is exposure to biohazard contamination.

As suggested “Surely EBME depts could do likewise and use universal precautions i.e. Gloves, apron, eye protection and hand-washing, as some of the spaces in equipment that can get contaminated are not accessible for non-technical staff.”

Bill smile

(P.S. not to mention our main occupational hazard exposure to nurses!!) wink


Bill
#20369 - 15/11/02 11:27 PM Re: DIRTY equipment  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 464
Mark.N Offline
Sage
Mark.N  Offline
Sage

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 464
Taunton
Perhaps, I'm being overly simplistic but, if one makes a mess one should clear it up ones self and not deligate their mess to someone else.
If one gets in to deligating mode, one doesn't care.

cheers

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