At what level do you think it deters people getting in Rick? - as starters on junior grades, or fully qualified technicians? Entry is not restricted - an individual with an ONC and relevant experience would be considered on their merits if they applied for a job-role where equivalent, relevant, experience and skills is acceptable in lieu of academic qualifications. Registration is not an option however until they obtain the minimum requirements, i.e. demonstrate academic attainment, experience and skills.

I certainly don't think an electronics ONC necessarily imparts any specialist knowledge on individuals, whether it be medical or technically biased, to justify employment on a senior grade, e.g. Band 6, or for the purposes of registration, unless the individual is already experienced (at a lower grade perhaps) and in a medical engineering related occupation.

For fully qualified technicians Whitley Council guidelines always stated HNC and where this was adhered to people complained about it but they just worked towards it. I think some people's concerns are that they won't be able to move between jobs with less than the minimum requirements (that already allow for equivalent experience and knowledge in lieu of academic qualifications). All that will happen is that they won't be able to work in protected job-roles as fully qualified technicians since, according to the requirements, they won't actually be fully qualified.

No-one seems to argue with the fact that they can't be registered as a CEng, IEng or EngTech, if they don't meet the requirements so what's different? If IEng were specified as arequirement and you didn't have one then you couldn't really complain if a job-application was not successful - same thing with any requirements - you either work towards them or set your sights lower when considering a new job.

Incidentally, Rick, if you were moving into the forces doing aircraft maintenance, nowadays, would ONC (is that in mechanical, electrical, electronics?) and experience be acceptable for you to move into a grade in the RAF where you'd be considered fully qualified? Without any re-training, loss of seniority or rank? I think not. In my opinion ONC does not give as much, i.e. enough depth or breadth, technically speaking, as HNC/HND/Degree.

I agree with you Rick but then when I joined up we had the mechs and the techs. We have to get the right person for the job and not just cut people off because of the degree stigma.

I have to add that I am going for the degree not that it will make me any better at my job, just my own personnel gain and maybe progression!!!!

Experience is what you need and if not in this field at least something similar as you will soon pick it up.

Remember there is those that can and those that theoris.

Billy, when you complete your degree will you lose all your practical skills and become a theorist?

P.S. Theorise (spelling - one of those transferable skills I was on about )

Sorry doing a degree in engineering not english but lets not get petty.

As for the losing practical skills, dont remember anyone ever saying that.

What I am on about is new starters into the trade, why should we bar people because they dont have an HNC or Degree. Look at the person and whether they can be trained in this field.

I have been asked if your degree is in media studies Richard.

Then you have a lot to learn come your first assignments (one of many), dissertation and when you get involved with things that don't involve learning how to solder. Incidentally I learned over a few years in industry, on the bench. I was trained and skilled but not academically qualifed - not apprentice trained.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when it dawns on you what you've taken on.

That's true - I don't ever remember anyone saying that just because people have degrees they haven't had prior experience (My degree came after industrial experience, full-time technician training, ONC and HNC).

Academic qualifications are an indicator of a person's abilities, one of many, in a whole range of professions - it would be a lack of experience and academic stuff that would handicap new starters - where do we draw the line - no experience, no relevant qualifications, no relevant skills/knowledge? Anthow what this thread is about is individuals not meeting the requirements for regulation, not necessarily just new-entrants.

No, neither of them are in media studies - although even if they were they would stand me in better stead for VRCT and HPC regulation than an ONC I suspect. If your colleague wants to show me his/hers then I will show mine (certificates just in case you're wondering).

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Anthow what this thread is about is individuals not meeting the requirements for regulation, not necessarily just new-entrants.

Tut tut speeling!!!

Glad we are getting back to the topic.

Yes registration is a good idea but we have come full circle on how do you get into the trade. Its a bit like Groundhog day this!!

Billy always has to make it personal - no point in a debate.

I don't have time to moderate this now - so I'm closing the thread.