Time for an autumn clear out? We’re always on the look out for used medical equipment. Can be in good condition, or in need of refurbishment, or for spares only. Whatever.

Also looking for spare parts inventory, manuals, test equipment etc.

Cash waiting. Can collect throughout the UK. Don't just bin it. We will always make you a fair offer.

Our correct Trust equipment donation method includes the receiver making an agreed bid for the equipment. However, if it can be done then there might be a nasal cautery unit available - it is not used anymore here.

I thought our Trust had a sort of official charity that they sent equipment to. If they don't run that programme anymore, or don't want it and you do, it would be better than throwing it away.

Is that any good to you? I suppose that even if you are repairing things before you send them, there are going to be certain items that it is just better not to recycle. If you let us know what you need or what can be recycled, the forum might be able to do more.

Good luck!

But surely esteemed contributors to this same forum have frowned upon such practices, Clare, have they not? For instance:-





… so, which way is it? Does the NHS have any coherent policy on this issue? My own take is that, by acting as a scavenger, I am helping out the mighty NHS (albeit in a very small way, as I always put in the lowest possible bid), by returning funds to the coffers in exchange for equipment that would otherwise just be binned! You could then take that money and purchase shiny new equipment (does plastic really shine?), or whatever else you want to do with it. There you are, I would be doing you a favour, not the other way round (as so many posts on this forum appear to imply).

Well, at least your own policies seem pretty clear, Trader. No one could accuse you of flamboyancy there, Mate. But you do have a point, though, as there have been a number of "mixed messages" on this forum about the rights and wrongs of selling off surplus equipment. It's almost as though some people shy away from anything that smacks of the filthy lucre!

I think I agree with Biomeds idea, a small income being generated for the Trust from the resale of the un-used equipment. But I dont think it would be very cost effective, a bod would have to "prepare" the equipment for sale and the lowest possible bid would just about cover his/her wage (I guess).

During the condemnation/decommisioning proceedure I have always been told to "safely disable" the equipment ready for disposal. The equipment is then taken away by a dedicated white van man when the time is right.

NHS nervousness regarding disposal of obsolete equipment to third parties emenates from trust risk departments and trust lawyers. The pressure to get back any residual value in an asset is from finance. The bottom line is obviously to follow the procedure specified in your trust's Medical Device Policy. Ours is for disablement of kit then WEEE disposal to scrap.

As regards worries about previous repairs making you legally liable for harm in a third world hospital, if you're prepaered to send repairs back onto an NHS ward, surely it ought to be alright to send repaired items abroad.

I live local to my hospital so the kit I repair has landed up used on most of my family and myself.

Marc

Here's another equipment disposal route for you all to consider. Don't waste your Trusts cash scapping equipment when you can get some return on it...

The disposal sales agency are the official government body through which you can safely dispose of all medical and non medical equipment. They would sell those items via numerous vetted contractors with proceeds returning directly to the trust. Furthermore, they DSA would subsequently be directly responsible for any future liabilities linked to that equipment.

It is the safest method and removes any risk from the trust plus the added benifit of funds finding there way directly back to the trust. One of their roles it states is "To secure the best overall return to the taxpayer from the sale of publicly owned major equipment and stockholding".

The current DSA contractor for medical equipment are field textiles on 0044 (0) 1268-729233. Also visit http://www.edisposals.com You will notice that they began life as the MoD's disposals agency so if you want a cheap land rover or battle ship this is the place to go.

John

Looks like we already need to revise Policy No.2, then, John.

Meanwhile, here is where it all ends up. I believe I recognise some of that kit. Ha, ha.



... doesn't quite gel, that, does it? How long is it before they get a sale at those prices (ie, how long does the Trust have to wait to see it's return), I wonder? Although I take the point about what we might call "absolution of risk", I expect the Trust would get a quicker result at, for example, Hilditch.

And there's not a whole lot going on here at the moment, either, by the look of it. By the way, notice the disclaimer on their home page:- "All items on this site need to checked and come with no guarantee". Just the same as you would get from Mike Hilditch (or, for that matter, the Biomed Trader, I should imagine).

Obviously this is not the only equipment disposal route available for NHS Trusts. EBME / Clinical Engineering departments who have enough clout and respect within their organisations can and do write their own equipment disposal policies, as long as they are within the NHS guidelines. Many Auction Houses will take on the risk factors and even dispose of unsold equipment in line with WEEE regulations.
There is more than one way to skin this cat!

Indeed, John, indeed. Just playing out my usual role as the devil's advocate, you know.

As I may have said before, I would have thought that a Central Collection Point (Clearing House, Redistribution Point etc.) for the whole of the National Health Service would put this issue to rest once and for all. Then everyone should be happy. Especially with all those nice NHS trucks I notice rushing up and down the highways!

Geoff

With a Band 8b as manager, a Band 5/6 in day to day charge and several Band 3s doing the work? Excuse the cynicysm but I've just spent the afternoon on a matching panel.

Thankfully old Mate, I don't even know what a matching panel is (although I expect I could hazard a guess). Something to do with recording studios, perhaps?

In truth, Dicky, for me it's a case of "don't know, and don't want to know"!

I think you are probably well out of it for your sanity.

Ain't that the truth!

No need to waste valuable time on preparation, Mr. Paul, I would be interested in equipment in "as is" condition. What more can I expect for a tin of biscuits, after all? I would rather that you limited your "safe disablement" to the simple removal of the mains lead though. No need to apply the hammer (as I have seen many times before, sadly). Meanwhile, the white van is standing by!

Thank you both, Mr.Geoff and Mr. John, for your clear comments on this issue.

My favourites are Garibalidis, Trader.

Meanwhile, Dicky, maybe you just need to chill-out and get a life, as they say. How about this one?

Ultimately, the machines must win. It's inevitable!

Greetings all. Allow me to wade into this controversy. I am a foreigner-Canadian. We run into this disposal issue on a regular basis. I do find it somewhat interesting that in Canada as in the UK, legal eagles advise disposal and hospitals take notice until they are able to generate some funds and then the legal concerns go away. I cannot speak for the in-country used equipment dealers but for groups/charities such as the one I am employed by, the chance of being sued by a developing nation for used hospital equipment is approx 0. Here are the reasons why. A hospital in a developing nation that requests equipment is almost always a charity or mission hospital. The groups that send it are most often a charity. They should be testing the equipment. In that case they have put their service into the machine. The identification of the original owner must be removed. Patients who seek treatment in a mission hospital are not going to sue someone, period. They do not have the resources, it would be culturally offensive to bite the hand that helps and all legal action would have to be in an international court. Do the legal eagles or the beureaucraticaly paranoid ever think about this? The landfills do not need more material. It is much better to send it to assist people less fortunate than ourselves than to scrap it. In Canada most hospitals choose to ignore the liability. Since it is basically non-existent that makes sense. We do deal with hospitals that refuse to donate. We have repeatedly verbally been informed by government representatives that even though we contravene Canadian law they are not interested in prosecuting. They have bigger fish to fry and they support what we are doing. Of course this will not come in writing and apparently the lawmakers have more important things to do as well. So we will continue. I would urge everyone concerned about this issue to locate a responsible organization that checks and donates equipment to developing nations and send the unwanted equipment their way. It is cheaper to ship it to them, as parts if need be, than to destroy and send to a landfill. Thanks for taking the time to read this rant. Hopefully it is helpful.



One hospital has discovered that classifying equipment as parts only has passed the legal requirements. You can also remove all identifcation linking the equipment to your facility.

I always feel that donated equipment should be both usable and maintainable otherwise it is utterly useless to the recipients.

I visited Georgetown in Guyana when my daughter was stationed there with Foreign Office and paid a courtesy visit to Medical Physics in the local hospital (I later visited the same hospital with a broken ankle – but that is another story and very scary).

The poor guy in there was faced with a mountain of KRAP donated by well meaning charities. There were: pulse oximeters with boards that couldn’t be repaired/replaced; x-ray equipment that was falling to bits and 16 IV pumps, for which giving sets were unobtainable. I could go on!

Being a cynic I sometimes feel that charities donate some of this equipment without much thought as to its after life. But hey – it makes them feel good and gets them some publicity with the non-discerning public.

My son has recently returned from Malawi, where he observed that many of these charities had NGOs running around in plush 4x4s and living in relative luxury. He felt that many (not all) of these charities were wasting money on staff and useless projects.

Sorry. Rant over. Looking forward to retirement on 7th December.

Retirement, Alastair? Why not join the Buddies and help put the world to rights?

Geoff
Getting old and decrepit for such jaunts and "She Who Must be Obeyed" has a list of must do tasks as long as your arm.

... and all come and join the discussion on this at the IET Seminar next year!

We have Andrei Issakov of the WHO addressing this very topic.

Andrew

The WHO have been talking about it for years, Andrew. Didn't they even set up a biomed training school out in Cyprus some years ago (very nice too, no doubt)? Furthermore, a few lucky guys were paid to tour the globe and write reports about the "state of play" of the tech support of medical equipment worldwide. That was years ago, too (although it may have been carried out again since, for all I know). But the point is ... what has been done (ie, to remedy the horror stories related in those reports)?

Personally, I've no time for endless yapping, beautiful reports, and grand declarations of intent (remember "Health for All by ..." when was it, the Year 2000)? On the other hand, I'm always interested in lending a hand in the practical sense, and my fees are extremely modest!

We all know what needs to be done, so why not just get on and do it?

All the more reason for getting away, I would have thought, Mate!

Agreed, Geoff, there has been a history of more air (and air miles) than practical hands-on.

However, if someone wants to know how to donate equipment well, the WHO guidelines are a good place to start. There is a role, surely, for using good experience to encourage others? That takes a bit of 'yapping'.....it's what we're doing here!

"We have Andrei Issakov of the WHO addressing this very topic"

Did he replace Roger Daltry or Pete Townsend ?

Rock n Roll ain't what it used to be ....unless Andrei smashes up the room as well

A good friend of mine tells me that quite a large amount of old medical equipment (used, ex-auction, ex-hospital clear outs, ex-lease) has to be cleared out from a warehouse within a month from now.

Apparently, although this stuff is, in the main, "for parts only" (and some may be incomplete), there is also a lot of "good" stuff there too. However, the aim is to get that place cleared out ... so if anyone is looking for job lots (a pallet load of old Dinamaps, for example) at give-away prices, then now is your chance!

Any one interested should feel free to get in touch by Personal Message. But please don't ask for lists, as none are available (and there is no time to draw them up ... it would take months to accurately describe all that stuff)!

Latest news re: the above is that it all has to be out of there by the end of this month (January).

Anything left will need to be "skipped". Which will be a damned shame!

If nothing else, all that stuff would be great for technician training purposes!

Having spoken to most Trusts we found it was all always down to the legal peeps being over cautious. we have resolved this by using the same solicitors as the NHS in order to draw up an agreement that protects them from any future legal claims.

So far most seem happy with this.

Any idea of how many pallet loads are there?

We have the space as we offer free storage for all medical equipment.

So, all that said, who do we get in touch with to organise removal of used equipment? We have 2 Gamma cameras to be "scrapped" but I would personally rather see them put to use elsewhere if possible.

well, if you want it stored for free & sold on your behalf then if you can either get it sent to us, or we can arrange collection (but you would need to pay the cost), then drop an email to lel@ddrmedical.co.uk

You might also want to consider speaking to Ed Bennett at Southwest Medical.

As Geoff Hannis has already pointed out in this thread, Hilditch are the market leaders in the sale of redundant / surplus equipment. The procedures we now follow have been devised to comply with the MHRA Guidelines. They have been examined by numerous Trusts, and their solicitors, and approved. We now have over 85% of all NHS acute Trusts using our services.

We strongly recommend that Trusts sell equipment by auction, as it has been proven to provide the best returns for the Trust financially, it is fully auditable and transparent, and is not open to abuse.

It is important to note that as per the MHRA guidelines all our equipment is sold strictly as “SOLD AS SEEN” and that purchasers sign a Disclaimer to confirm this fact when they pay for their goods.

As a point of fact, most equipment sold to private medical buyers by hospitals ends up in our sales anyway! And, as a further note, everything sells - including the "two-a-penny" items.

... well, you would say that, Mike, wouldn't you?

In the spirit of true transparency, perhaps you should publish your commission rates as well. After all, we don't want to mislead anyone into thinking that Hilditch Auctions are a not-for-profit organisation now, do we?

Personally, I would prefer that surplus equipment (which us taxpayers have paid for) went to good causes, like medical charities shipping equipment to the sick and needy overseas.

I see that no reply has been given!
I presumme, that you may have upset him Geoff!!
Although I may be wrong.
Ebay seems to have its share of used medical equip somehow

I know Mike Hilditch ... I doubt that he has been upset. I also know what Mike's margin is (it is made clear at the auction itself), so we can be sure that a profit is generated.

And yes, knowing also many of the regulars at the monthly auction at Malmesbury, I can assure you that some (but to be honest, not a lot) of the stuff bought there ends up on eBay. However, the vast majority of it goes overseas, to the veterinary market, or (to a lesser extent) into nursing homes and the like.

Hilditch Auctions provide a useful service, clearing out unwanted kit, and NHS Trusts obtain a return that they would not get if they simply binned their old kit. But, as I say, other organisations are also willing to clear out unwanted equipment, with the aim of shipping it off to people in need in other parts of the world. That is, as a donation, freely given.

As you know Geoff, the middle east donates a lot of their used equipment through the islamic relief, it would be nice if the UK health service done something on the same lines

Quite a number of NHS hospitals are very generous when it comes to donating kit they no longer need. Others send stuff to auction, and some (regrettably) have inflexible disposal policies leading to kit being smashed up and tossed in the skip.

Notice, however, that whichever method is followed, the taxpayer does not receive a refund!

As with almost everything else to do with the equipment side of our so-called National Health Service, there is no common policy concerning the disposal and/or donation of redundant medical equipment.

Best you get a job on the Goverment Geoff, you seem to know your onions.
Perhaps you could change the way things are dealth with .

Government? You must be joking! Honest people need not apply (and therein lies the problem).

One year on I continue to be looking out for surplus parts.

So if you are moving on to new equipment please get in touch if you still have parts laying around for the old equipment. Cash waiting, as always.