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#31010 - 27/05/08 11:55 AM Re: AFC [Re: Kawasaki]
Paul Allum Offline
Adept

Registered: 30/11/05
Posts: 85
Loc: Kent
Originally Posted By: Kawasaki

I eventually found out (following re-evaluation) from the Head of HR the following:
When applying the score to the bands under AfC, if the score is in the lower half of the band, then the evaluation team will re-look at the matching and re-score in order to place it in the next band down!!!!! In other words, you have to score in the top half of the band to be placed in that band."


That is wrong on so many levels it beggars belief mad .
I take it you couldn't get that in writing?

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#31011 - 27/05/08 12:46 PM Re: AFC [Re: Paul Allum]
Kawasaki Offline
Philosopher

Registered: 14/01/05
Posts: 768
Loc: NHS Surrey
Paul
I didn't get it in writing but it was said in front of the Head of Department and Head of Medical Physics!!
I therefore pressed home the point that there was obviously a cost saving exercise underway and that it was my duty to let everyone know!!
Needless to say I eventually got my correct band. However, since I have left, they are jerking around again and changing the goalposts and offering lower bands.
_________________________
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own.

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#31012 - 27/05/08 12:54 PM Re: AFC [Re: Paul Allum]
BBottomley Offline
Mentor

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 165
Loc: Huddersfield Royal Infirmary, ...
Paul

Did you ever use this http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=260 as a logical link between techs and clinical scientists?

With a fair wind and ticks in all the right boxes (including manager support) it could get a tech right up to 8c as a Healthcare Scientist Professional Manager.

Brian

_________________________
**** Still grumbling in the Pennines ****

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#31014 - 27/05/08 01:25 PM Re: AFC [Re: BBottomley]
Chris Watts Offline
Sage

Registered: 21/12/04
Posts: 521
Loc: UHBristol
Can't find the precise document that mentions the recommendation to use the generic profiles (just try searching on dh website for agenda for change!) but I did find this interesting document. Notice how the current workforce changes from nearly everybody on band 5/6 to a wide spread between bands 3 and about 8a. I maybe a bit cynical but it does seem that employers are more than happy to banding people lower to achieve this than banding them higher and employing less qualified people in the lower bands.

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#31016 - 27/05/08 02:15 PM Re: AFC [Re: Kawasaki]
Lee S Offline
Philosopher

Registered: 17/09/06
Posts: 621
Loc: Hereford
I put this reply in a previous thread:-

Quote:
To match an AFC job description for banding, two sections ‘must be’ matched the Knowledge, training and experience (section 2) and Freedom to Act (section 12), you may then fail to match up to 4 of the other sections and as long as you reach the relevant job evaluation score you should get the band.

When (if) the regulation of Clinical Technologists happens anyone wishing to work as a medical engineer etc will either need to be "grand parented" on to the register or have completed an approved degree.

The AFC description for a Medical Engineering Technician band 5 Section 2:- Knowledge, Training and Experience says "Expertise within specialism, underpinned by theory. Professional electronics knowledge to degree equivalent level, acquired through BEng in electronics or HND + short courses or equivalent training and experience."

So combining the up coming regulation and AFC description it could be argued that anyone coming in to this role requires a degree and that anybody already in this role must have the equivalent training and experience.

As for autonomy unless the person you answer to supervises every thing you do including repairs on wards and work whilst on call then one could argue that a band 5 should be the minimum, for anybody already in post.

The AFC description for a Medical Engineering Technician Specialist adds specialist training and experience to section 2 and is lead practitioner for specialist equipment to section 12, therefore many people may be able to match a band 6.


The staff on the matching panel will not know many of the jobs that they are evaluating; so it is up to the person writing the job description to ensure that the required wording is covered, (for example if the Job profile says “analysing faults in complex multifaceted equipment put it in your job description). If you go for re banding then ensure you use the words from the job profile to make it easy for the evaluation panel to see that you tick the boxes.

Lee
_________________________
Don't forget "we've never had it so good".

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#31017 - 27/05/08 03:50 PM Re: AFC [Re: Chris Watts]
biomedbill Offline
Sage

Registered: 22/07/05
Posts: 527
Loc: south yorkshire
Chris,
I came across this a while back and I was concerned about the attempt to change the spread of grades. I think that they should shove it somewhere the sun don't shine (no, not Skegness!). If you look at the current spread, it closely follows a normal distribution bell curve. This is how our jobs have developed over the years, it’s the natural order of things. What they propose is an unnatural situation with two peaks. This set up suits departments like Medical Physics because they can employ more Scincal Clientists at band 7 and above and reduce their wage bill by replacing band 5 and 6 grades with 3’s and 4’s.

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#31021 - 27/05/08 10:49 PM Re: AFC [Re: biomedbill]
Chris Watts Offline
Sage

Registered: 21/12/04
Posts: 521
Loc: UHBristol
I think the big point here Bill is the lack of movement on the graph in the right handside. The graph predicts a big increase in upper bands but at the moment were not seeing it. Now in the future that's going to be a problem for recruitement certainly when the Engineering and Technology Board’s survey last year reported the average salary for a engineering technician was £33,000! When you hear employers believe the starting grade for someone with HND/degree and experience is band 4 or 5 you just want to rush for the straight jackets! grin

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#31025 - 28/05/08 10:29 AM Re: AFC [Re: Chris Watts]
Graham Roberts Offline
Master

Registered: 17/12/03
Posts: 282
Loc: Wales
We have 2 technicians here who were given Band 4, and increased to band 5 on review. That was last November. They are still being paid on band 4 and when I questioned this recently, all those who have been or awaiting review are on hold while the consistency checks are revisited.

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#31030 - 28/05/08 12:17 PM Re: AFC [Re: Chris Watts]
biomedbill Offline
Sage

Registered: 22/07/05
Posts: 527
Loc: south yorkshire
I read that report and thought; we are going backwards again. In the eighties we struggled to match the salaries of private industry but in the nineties we made a lot of progress towards closing the gap. Now it seems that we are falling behind again. Our trainees have been put on Annexe U of AFC at band 5 which means that after five years of working and studying for a degree they will qualify for a salary of £19,500 at today's rates. A two year apprenticeship in electrical installation can lead to a job with a salary of c.£24,000. How can we convince potential trainees that this is a worthwhile carrer?

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