Job Reference : 331-B23908
Job Title : Medical Engineer
Employer : University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay NHS Trust
Department : FGH Electronics Dept Location Barrow, In, Furness Salary £19,683 -£25,424 Working pattern : 37.5 Hours/Week
Job Type : Permanent Staff Group Estates & Ancillary Pay Scheme
Agenda for change Pay Band : 5
Closing Date : 1/08/2008

NHS Jobs Website Click Here

We are looking to recruit an enthusiastic, self-motivated Technician to work in the Medical Engineering Department at Furness General Hospital.

The successful candidate will be expected to perform commissioning, acceptance, maintenance, and calibration on a wide range of electro-biomedical equipment. Candidates with good practical skills and sound electronic service work experience from non-medical fields will be considered.

The candidate should have the experience and skills necessary to provide technical support for medical equipment requiring repair, maintenance and calibration, however training will be provided where necessary.

Applicants should have a National Certificate in Engineering or equivalent, demonstrate a high level of IT Literacy and posses excellent communication skills. Candidates who are studying for or do not fully meet the qualification requirements may be considered for a trainee position until sufficient experience is gained.


Informal Enquiries:
Christopher Lamb, Head of Medical Device Management on 01524 583921.

With only four days to go before the closing date, can we assume that you have yet to be swamped with "enthusiastic, self-motivated" candidates then, Joe?

Should get a better response than the Scarborough job posted on the 25th, they are offering band 4! Ridiculous.

Just as long as y'all don't forget that there are still a few "enthusiastic, self-motivated" independent freelancers around, who are not too fussy where they work, are willing to step up to the mark for a few months (as temporary stand-ins), but do prefer those sea-side bookings!

I have always wondered how the NHS work out the pay structure for ebme departments when you get more money, better benefits and you need less qualifications for jobs like this!

DW - Still not a real welder!

I wonder what the original Victorian vending machines looked like - all wrought iron and excess decoration selling patent health drinks?
Robert

... and your point is, Darth?

When I left the mob (many years ago now), one of the first jobs made available to me involved travelling around the UK servicing petrol pumps. The main "perk" being (of course) free fuel. As I look back on things, I sometimes wish I had seized that opportunity.

My point is:- what's the big deal about medical equipment? Surely it's just kit just like any other? It's the environment that (medical equipment is used in) makes it "special". And, back in my day, that's certainly how it was regarded in the REME ... it was treated, more or less, in the same way as the "green kit". And quite rightly so, in my opinion.

Victorian, Robert (George III: 1760 to 1820)? Our great Queen Victoria sat from 1837 to 1901.

You are right Geoff a piece of kit is a piece of kit - my point is why do companies and more usually the NHS ask you for qualifications and possibly a few years experience in the Medical Engineering enviroment when you can get a better package elsewhere where you just need some basic engineering experience.

DW - I think the darkside is tempting!

A history of vending machines if anyone is interested?

DW - It's too hot here today!

You ask "why", Darth ...

Well, my answer would have to be that many (I'm thinking here more of the management types) have been in the NHS so long that they're out of touch with the "real world"!

At my stage of the game, I have no particular axe to grind, but can simply report that trying to do (even temporary) work in the NHS involves having to jump through all sorts of hoops that private concerns would not even mention. It is not a question of "standards", it's just the "Jobsworth" mentality that often seems to prevail (in any large public organization - of which the NHS is the sole surviving civilian example on a colossal scale). On the other hand, private companies just want you to get the work done!

I agree to a certain extent but if a vending machine fails, I doubt it would harm anyone. Although the coffee and tea those machines dispense is more likley to cause you harm!

Kit is kit, but when it's attached to a patient it carries far greater risks and consequences if it goes wrong.Therfore a far greater level of responsibility, with that should come greater renumeration.
After all thats why we pay our Docs and Diretors large salaries, becuase of the responsibility thats comes with the position.

Would you be happy to have the 'vending machine guy' without any formal electronic/technical qualification popping in to ICU to service the Vents?


Dom

If an engineer has been properly trained on the equipment he has to service, it makes no matter whether it is a vending machine or a ventilator in the ICU. Or, for that matter, a gas boiler, motorcycle ... etc., etc.

Take it from me, biomed techs do not hold the monopoly on nous (far from it, in fact)!

Here is a cracking wee job if anyone is interested? I really fancy this one myself but i don't think i would like living there!

DW - Cafe latte - nice!

My experience with the NHS was a bit strange - I was looking for a work placement as part of my resettlement package, the amount of crap paperwork involved was a bit much and trying to find a hospital that was willing to take me was a joke as they were only worried about the legality aspect, however i found the private sector much better, they were quite happy to have someone working for them for free.

DW - The darkside is the way ahead!

Darkside copyright of GH

"Knowledge of the coffee or coffee brewing industry would be an advantage ..."

I'm more into brewing tea myself ... think that would hold me back?

Thanks for that post, Darth (the one above). I didn't want people to start thinking it was only me who'd had experiences like that. Private sector hospital ... or company? But I won't continue, as we're getting a bit far from Joe's original post!

May the Force of the Dark Side be with you!

I think the answer here is responsibility and the way jobs are handled in the NHS. The private sector seems more interested in responsibility and cost whereas in the NHS it seems to be more knowledge. The difference between two posts in the private sector and two bands in the NHS is that the private sector posts will require extra responsibility and the NHS bands will require to specialise. It's one of the major complaint's in the private sector that often if you want to progress you have drink from the cup of management. (usually joke is "and all your technical knowledge will vanish"!)

Another thing that happens in the NHS is trying to bring people in on lower bands. In the private sector that doesn't happen that much, basically the job being advertised is the job you either get or don't if they think your not suitable. One good thing about the NHS is that there's a clear career progression and increments. If you discount inflation increases, it's possible that the coffee equipment field service engineer will probably be on the same salary in a few years time as they are now. No yearly increments for them and if they do get a rise, every year is a KSF gateway!

Also if anything the coffee equipment field service engineer's salary is probably related to responsibility. It's possible that technically it could be done by a school leaver but since the position holder will be promoting the company they probably want someone more experienced in the ways of the world.

Qualifications mean nothing in my opinion if they are not underpinned with proper training and development (ah, apprenticeships). I used to install, service and repair equipment on the oil rigs and the standards you had to work to were exacting. I was shocked at first when I started working in the medical field at the the average standard people think is acceptable.

If your foundations are not sound, chances are you will take poor working practices with you throughout your career.

Bring back apprenticeships I say. Lets get this country back on track and stop trying to do things on the cheap...

Although the idea of apprenticeships may seem a good idea with a layed down format of training and development, I don't think that's the way to go.

There's a tendancy with employers who employ apprentices to keep investing in the apprentice even if they turn out to be not up to the job and once they have invested it's very hard to sack them. In my previous employment if someone wanted to know what was the borderline of unexceptable behaviour they just had to see what the apprentices were doing. It was also known for them to be given posts that were completely unsuitable for just because the company wouldn't lay them off. I know of only one former apprentice that was sacked and that was only when his house was full of the company's tv's!

Thinking about it further, the best example of poor working practices probably came from the apprentices. The less accountable you are for your actions the poorer the working practices become.

There were apprenticeships ... and then there were Apprenticeships!

I was an Army Apprentice myself (one of many thousands who passed through Arborfield back then), and I reckon it was a pretty solid foundation to working life. We were still just kids really (not like today's youngsters who hardly seem to have any sort of proper childhood, the poor devils). We were taught a trade by old sweats, and beasted around the drill square until we learned the value of discipline. It was a good technique ... catch 'em young, and mould them into what you want! We certainly had plenty of role models to choose from. Damned good blokes, by and large. Frankly, I pity the young people of today, who generally don't get those sort of opportunities! What mentors do they ever get to meet (especially those who need them the most)?

Never mind apprenticeships ... bring back National Service! That will sort the men from the boys (literally)!

I was an apprentice many years ago (in Geoffs time). The company took on about 30 annually and the first 12 to 18 months was spent in their own purpose built training school, one day a week was spent in the local tech getting the paper qualifications. There were 3 instructors at the training school and you got away with nothing. even to the point all work ceased at 4pm and the benches, lathes and floor were swept and inspected! all tools had to be returned to the store or you didn't go home until it was found (usually a 0-1 micrometer in somebody's overalls).
Work was taught and carried out to a high standard. What did it teach me - Respect, discipline and get the job right first time to a high standard! Yes they did sack people in those days, unlike today where we have become a pc society where respect and discipline no longer count.

Further to the above (but slightly off topic, I'll admit ... sorry Joe) ... during National Service, the first thing that the first intake had to do at a certain Royal Engineer's Training Camp was build their own NAAFI!

Yes, Graham, you're spot-on there Mate. Those things you mention are (were) all familiar to me.

Regarding Chris' experiences ... well, as I say, I guess the quality of apprenticeships on offer must have varied from establishment to establishment.

But, where does a young person go to get their (engineering) training these days (and don't tell me University ... I'm talking about proper training)? Who's going to (be able to) take over when "us lot" have all gone?

So, here we go ... let's start the ball rolling for the mighty NHS (big enough to support such a scheme, surely) to start an Apprenticeship Scheme whereby having a trainee in every EBME shop would become the norm!

Geoff, did you know the REME are finally pulling out of Arborfield in the near future. Maybe the NHS could take over their facilities and you could be founding member...

All NHS trainee technical staff could go. Brilliant.

The Apprentices' College is already long gone, Mate. Meanwhile, I'll keep chipping away as and when I can.

This (once great) nation of ours has been "damaged beyond repair" in my opinion. Now, where's my AFG-1043 pad (for those who may recall what they were)?

Do they have them in the Falklands then ???

Block release college/university, on the job training, cpd to name a few. There's one major difference between military and the non military, usually there's nothing to stop an apprentice from completing their apprenticeship and the next day deciding they want to work for someone else. (it’s one of the many reason’s apprentices are kept sweet) Correct me if I'm wrong but waking up and deciding you don't want to do the job in the army is still called desertion!

Some apprenticeships have got around the problem of retention by either demanding that the apprentice pays for their own training or having an similar scheme to sponsoring at degree level where the trainee agrees to work for a certain period or refund their training expenses on leaving.

Correct me if I'm wrong ... but surely all apprenticeships had some sort of retention clause. If not, they the employers must have been idiots!

In the army we had to "sign on" for some stipulated period (n years) each time we went forward on some sort of career course. Apprentices served a 9+3, if I remember rightly (nine years service, plus three as a reservist). But anyway, why would you want to leave?

Can I presume that you never had the opportunity to serve, then, Chris? Your loss, Mate, unfortunately.

The old apprenticeships are a thing of the past, there use to be jobs that you couldn't do unless you took an apprenticeship. I remember when leaving school that if you wanted to join Rolls Royce it was impossible unless you came straight from their apprenticeship. Even giving up an apprenticeship about 10 years ago was unheard of so there were companies who used standard employment contracts.

Now that a job for life is a very rare thing and it's expected that employees will change jobs more often, employers are less keen on investing vast amounts on apprentices even if they have guarantees of two or three years service.

By the way I think the comment "why would you want to leave" tells quite a bit about the Army Apprenticeship. After the American's took over the previous company I worked for the training opportunities for apprentices really went down hill. At least one gave in their notice and decided to take a full time course. If someone can't answer why someone would want to leave after or during their apprenticeship, their apprenticeship must have been good!

... not to mention "somewhere to kip, plus three square meals a day"!

PS: pity that I missed your "edited remark"! I would have enjoyed that, I should imagine. Oh well, never mind.

I still have to sign these!

DW - Still in the daftside!

If any of the old ex-REME sweats are interested here is a link to the new site and all the future training needs of the Corp!

DW - The Medical & Dental training will probably go there as well!

We all have one or two common traits in us (passion & commitment). The suggestion for apprenticeship is good. We could see such a continuation of our trade being followed by a younger generation before and after our retirement.

To guarantee your job for life ..... ha! ha! that depends on you if you choose to stay and not complaining about your annual salary increment of a mere 2.75%. Will younger people think of moving from place to place nowadays? The trend is always there. Why? ... simple ... every job they hop comes with a few hundred dollar jump. Its happening too frequently here (for non contract I mean).

Regards

Hey Darth, is this a wind-up Mate? "Arborfield" (and Bordon) to move to South Wales. The final insult!

So, shall we form a consortium and make a bid?

Why would anybody want the same job throughout his (her) life, Roger? Sounds like extreme sadness to me!

Are apprenticeships available in Singapore, by the way ... or is it just another society with pathetic short-term goals of the "get rich quick" variety?

Some wise old dude or other (I think he was living rough at the time) once muttered something like "there's more to life than money". I think he had a point, don't you?

The edited remark was the last paragraph. You can tell a lot about a place when someone is asked about either leaving, employment insurance or the need for a union and the answer is either why would they do that or why would we need one!

I believe it was down to a term what was called "company loyalty", which due to poor employer/employee relations in most companies is now dead!

Granted that many blokes were effectively trapped in days gone by (eg, in the "steel towns", "mill towns", dockyards, shipyards, and at the various coal-fields dotted around Great Britain, etc.) ... otherwise, I would argue that staying "loyal" to a single company throughout one's working life was more a case of "couldn't be bothered" (or, perhaps, lacking the wits) to imagine anything else! In short, not much less than a waste of a life!

PS: note also that, for many of the aforementioned "trapped" blokes, service in the Armed Forces (even in times of war) would have come as a blessed relief!

Geoff,

Not any more apprenticeship as it has died years ago. The scenario has changed and no one wants an apprenticeship for they are better qualified now and can afford to choose the employer.

I think everyone needs to balance between life and money though money is important but life ( I mean health) is even more important that anything.

Our younger generation here (those who just started working) had a tendency to move from one place to another (you may say short-term goal and getting rich). These are yuppies trying to earn an extra dollar to pay up to the bank for their car, house, etc. What a sad thing for they are always chasing for their dreams.

Apprenticeships or not, it looks like "Made in England" can still remain an occasional possibility!