With regard to the dross, outside auditors are being brought in to many NHS organisations with a remit to find ways of reducing managerial expenditure by 30%.
Make of that what you will!!!

Here's my advice (free of charge) ... cut so-called "management" positions by 50% on Monday morning. There's your savings made, right there. I doubt that the loss of dross will be mourned ... but rather celebrated, especially by everybody else trying to get on with the real work.

But (whilst on the subject of dross) ... I was thinking more about the entrenched, long-term, types amongst the "lower ranks" who have not been noticeably productive for ... er, a number of years. Let's have a sort out across the board. Put another way, why should the tax-payer be expected to (continue to) support time wasters, often with "agendas" that are counter-productive (and very little, or in fact nothing at all, to do with the provision of public healthcare), as they drift (waddle?) on from day to day until pension time?

On second thoughts, I guess the taxpayer gets to support them anyway, whether they are "employed" in the Public Sector or "signing on" at the Job Center (so-called).

Do you need redundancies if you can just cut the bonuses???

Trouble with cutting 30% of managerial expenditure is the government indirectly put it there in the first place.
You must monitor this, says the government and a dept evolves that really has no benefit to patient care, just passed info back and forth.
We should be getting rid of all these non-jobs.

See my post of 20-Feb-10 under the "Hinchingbrooke Hospital" thread.

I have been reading this with great interest. I fully agree with Kawasaki. The situation in the NHS is dire - no general election is going to change that overnight. And it is about time there was a big shake up - make staff demonstrate their worth to the organisation. Working for the NHS is far better than working for the private sector in this current climate and their are those in the NHS that have forgotten that. We get good amounts of annual leave, sick pay, compassionate leave, emergency parental leave, there's always options for redeployment rather than redundancy - you name it the NHS on the whole is a good employer and for those that don't think so then may be they are the first ones that should go?

Welcome to the forum, Fiona.

And with such refreshing honesty! Of course it's great working for the NHS (or anywhere else in the Public Sector, for that matter - but let's stick to the NHS for now) ... for all the reasons you mention, and more!

As a non-NHS type myself (and as others on the forum will no doubt confirm), I personally get fed up with all the moaning and groaning that goes on. As I may have said before (and as you have also hinted) ... if anyone is that unhappy working in a government hospital, let them try their luck elsewhere!

And ... you're right about any possible change of government. No doubt the Great Juggernaut will lumber on regardless!

The "moaning and groaning" is all seen as being part of the job by NHS workers who believe in the importance of a national health service, currently under threat. The NHS would never have been created in the first place if not for centuries of often far more courageous dissent, which eventually resulted in trades unions powerful enough to force the provision of the vote for all. Simply walking away from problematic jobs will achieve nothing - let's stay and fight (or lose what we've won)!

I agree that there is a large amount of superflous and useless administrative work in the NHS, which to many of us clearly makes the organisation inefficient. But much of this has been deliberately put there as part of the creeping drive towards eventual privatisation - its purpose is to make staff think as customers and sellers of services. This is a part of what people are complaining about.

You're right, Geoff, working in the NHS can be great, and the job satisfaction is made all the greater when one feels one has contributed to the survival of the organisation.

An interesting thread regarding a topic which I think will become more and more prominent in the NHS over the next few years (months even, particular from 2011).

Employee's who work for the NHS (and in most public sector jobs) are onto a good 'screw' compared to our private sector counterparts, particularly in the current climate and compared to those within the Medical Engineering fields of private companies. So you are right Fiona, people should not forget that, and those who are totally clueless to that fact need to experience the real world and wake up fast.

The private companies will also be on the receiving end of the NHS financial mess.

The NHS has for too long has had too many time wasting posts, middle management tiers and generally various posts and roles which do not culminate at all to benefit patient care.

However we must not tar all managerial posts, as some are required and essential and there are people in those roles who are dedicated and well informed. There is also dead wood on ‘the ground’ amongst the so called ‘real workers’ too, and who have had their day and should leave.

The NHS is on the slippery slope and there is no return. Let’s face it, the NHS will not make another 60 years, it WILL be privatized and the implementation of Foundation Trust Status was the biggest step and clue to this fact.

We all know that once the accountants get involved (in both public and private sectors) things go downhill fast, but surely even they can see the effect these cuts will have on patient care?

Whoever gets in government in May will not be able to turn around this mess.

Perhaps the people at the top should be making sure the funds are going where they are meant and get involved in making things more efficient, this will mean staff cuts but that is by far not the first point of call.

One last un-biased thought – all employees of the public sector who have not been in the reel world should remember that they get paid regardless; they have a job regardless if any work goes out the door.

"Employee's who work for the NHS (and in most public sector jobs) are onto a good 'screw' compared to our private sector counterparts,"

They may be on a more equal footing now, but it was not so long ago that NHS techs were paid paid considerably less than their private company counterparts.
Those of us that have have been around a long time, will remember paying to have student/junior techs to go to college and get their ONC/HNC. Once achieved they promply left for industry to a better paid job.
In 1972, I left a well paid industrial job (£32 a week) to start in the NHS as a qualified tech (grade 5) on £20). Why? Because I wanted to improve myself and reach higher goals.