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#44855 - 19/03/10 10:23 AM Re: Plug-in Chargers [Re: Geoff Hannis]
bam Offline
Technologist

Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 43
Loc: London. England
This is what the Electricity Safety Council have to say about themselves:


Who are we?
The Electrical Safety Council (ESC) is an independent charity committed to reducing deaths and injuries through electrical accidents at home and at work.

We are supported by all sectors of the electrical industry as well as local and central government and work to promote safety and good practice.

The power supplies were checked by an independent test house against the standard claimed by the device. My concern is that it seems that I cannot trust the CE Marking, and really need to test these things my self to remain in the clear. What about the ones that are brought into hospital by patients? Do you ban them, test them, get the patient to sign a waiver? The article that I quoted includes the story of a four year old boy killed by the power supply that he was using on his Play Station. Who would carry the can if this happened in your hospital?

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#44856 - 19/03/10 10:40 AM Re: Plug-in Chargers [Re: bam]
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero

Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 10298
Loc: the path less trodden

Ye Gods ... this is getting worse (as in, more interesting)!

Killed by his PlayStation (power supply)? How? When he spilled his orange juice all over it? Or did he stick it his mouth?

Wasn't it (Dickens') Mr.Gradgrind who said something like:-

"I deal in facts, Sir, facts"! smile

[Afternote]:-

And how many hospitals have PlayStations (and similar) on the Asset Register, I wonder? Or, for that matter, on the Risk Register?

There is always risk ... like everything else, it just has to be managed.


Edited by Geoff Hannis (19/03/10 12:03 PM)
Edit Reason: Added the afternote

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#44928 - 23/03/10 02:22 PM Re: Plug-in Chargers [Re: Geoff Hannis]
bam Offline
Technologist

Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 43
Loc: London. England
I managed to find the link to the publication so that you can read it all yourself:
http://www.esc.org.uk/business-and-community/our-magazine.html

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#44931 - 23/03/10 02:49 PM Re: Plug-in Chargers [Re: bam]
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero

Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 10298
Loc: the path less trodden

Well played, Sir! smile

Something to read later on, with my cocoa, then.

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#44936 - 23/03/10 05:14 PM Re: Plug-in Chargers [Re: Geoff Hannis]
MikeX Offline
Scholar

Registered: 27/02/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Yorkshire
Interesting article as it supports what I was saying about inadequate testing being conducted on these class II plug in power supplies and chargers!

Although I suspect only doing a Hi-Pot (flash) test between the mains input and low voltage output connections would actually revel a problem. Some domestic PAT testers support this 3KV AC test but better to perform at DC to reduce damage caused by high leakage currents when using AC. The GMC Secutest SIII springs to mind as a unit that can perform the DC Hi-Pot tests and is a nice medical safety tester.

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#44939 - 23/03/10 08:19 PM Re: Plug-in Chargers [Re: MikeX]
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero

Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 10298
Loc: the path less trodden

Originally Posted By: MikeX
Although I suspect only doing a Hi-Pot (flash) test between the mains input and low voltage output connections would actually revel a problem.

Create a problem, more like. frown

Let's stick to whatever it is the Standard(s) call for, shall we?

That is IEC-60601-1 et al. With emphasis (I would suggest) on IEC 62353.

Next thing we know we'll be back to "mains on applied parts". You know, 220 VAC on iPod earphones!

PS: I've not had time to read the article yet (and I'm out of cocoa). smile

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#44953 - 24/03/10 10:13 AM Re: Plug-in Chargers [Re: Geoff Hannis]
bam Offline
Technologist

Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 43
Loc: London. England
My main concern is that it seems that you cannot trust the CE Marking, since it is possible for a manufacturer to market a product which is significantly different to the one submitted for test. I thought that the whole point about CE Marking was that we did not have to retest every product!
Now I am going to have a coffee!

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#44955 - 24/03/10 10:23 AM Re: Plug-in Chargers [Re: bam]
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero

Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 10298
Loc: the path less trodden

I have already offered my opinion on CE marking. I feel much the same about all stick-on labels. Why should I trust any of them?

The only thing I trust is my multimeter (if you catch my drift), and I would urge all techs to adopt a similar outlook. In fact I believe (hope, even) that the majority of techs already feel the same way.

As I am seemingly never tired of saying (and as we all know), electrical safety is the core raison d'être of "biomed"! And (as the Guardian of electrical safety in hospitals) we must be ever vigilant.

Enjoy your coffee, Brian. But just be careful with that kettle! That is, is the tingling sensation due to the caffeine ... or something else? smile

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#44962 - 24/03/10 02:24 PM Re: Plug-in Chargers [Re: Geoff Hannis]
Clare Walsh Offline
Savant

Registered: 11/04/02
Posts: 122
Loc: Up North
Specifically on these plug-in chargers or power adaptors, I showed one to our manager some years ago which is appearing more and more in medical settings.

It is a power adaptor with interchangeable sections for the various world-wide pin designs. This would be great as an elegant solution, if the interchangeable bits were not made of cheap and easily snapped plastic, and the contacts that dock them onto the charger were not exposed. shocked

When (note - not IF! there is form here) they break, this leaves two large copper contacts attached to the live mains in the wall ready for anyone to electrocute themselves on. And this device has a CE mark and BS kitemark.

My manager tried to raise a report with the MHRA but they simply were not interested.

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#44964 - 24/03/10 03:17 PM Re: Plug-in Chargers [Re: Clare Walsh]
MikeX Offline
Scholar

Registered: 27/02/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Yorkshire
Well if the medical location was to the MEIGaN standard then at least the RCD would trip (or in the case of an IPS then a shock would be unlikely).

It is always amazing that in new houses we now have to have RCD protection but I see few new hospitals install RCD protection on the mains sockets!

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