Currently I am working with NSW Government Health Departments and Hospital EBME depts down under are expected not only to provide EBME services within a group of hospitals within a catchment area but also get business from outside private hospitals and clinics, this is done via a Business Unit Manager who sources potential clients. Is this practiced in the NHS EBME depts in UK?

Main hospital and satellite clinics, what is new about that? If they want to centralize the services are they giving you extra funding for staff, parts, test equipment etc?

Just as long as the "Business Unit Manager" also arranges any additional resources needed to carry out the extra work that s/he so triumphantly brings in!

Otherwise (and as everyone knows) there are various "business models" used for biomed departments in NHS hospitals throughout the UK. Each Trust can develop its own version, in theory at least. The question as to whether they are actually run as businesses is probably best looked at from the perspective (and aspirations) of the manager and, indeed, a definition of the word "business"!

To my mind, real businesses have owners (or shareholders) ... and they do not expect to be bailed out (eg, by the tax-payer) if (when) they fail.

Perhaps what we are really talking about here are Profit Centres. But as Peter Drucker famously exclaimed:- "The only profit centre is a customer whose cheque hasn’t bounced"!

When they have meetings are there " B.U.M ",s on seats ???

Why should NHS EBME staff be forced to work in the private sector for nothing? No other professional group would be used in this way. I'd like to see NHS medical consultants being leased out to the local BUPA hospital during their normal working hours for no extra pay. Even the Royal College of Nursing would never allow this to be tried on with their members. Private sector staff work in the public sector because their only purpose is to make money for their company's shareholders, but anyone choosing to work for the NHS, for example, should have an ideological commitment to their organisation.

NHS staff good. Public sector bad.

Yeah, right.

Main hospital and satellite clinics, what is new about that? If they want to centralize the services are they giving you extra funding for staff, parts, test equipment etc?

There is no extra founding for staff and recruitment had been stopped for 6 months, the Western Area Group had over spent $70M.

If you are bringing in private hospitals, they should pay for the services, they already do it with 'third party companies'

Of course they get billed! Do you think that NHS EBME departments work outside for nowt? There's enough resistance (from within the departments) as it is. Get real, Neil.

Apart from that, let it be said that those who labour on the Dark Side are quite happy that (in general) most in-house NHS biomed sheds are disinclined to venture outside of their own cozy little world.*

Also ... why should the tax-payer be subsidising such ventures? "Unfair competition" is the phrase that comes to mind.

You want more? OK ... (and for example) why should I (as one of the tax-payers) be paying not only for my own test equipment, but for that of my "competitors" as well? I'm sure you catch my drift, there, Mate.

* See earlier (historical) posts that have touched on this.

Geoff, I said that they should get paid. Umish was indicating there was no funds. Obtaining outside work is a way of filling the coffers. I is real.

To be honest (and, I must say, "as usual") I have no idea what he is actually driving at.

But (just in case it's something worth discussing) ... yes, funding and revenue are two different things.

Me real too!

Stay on topic please guys.

So this is about revenue generating and also competing with the private sector! What then is the role of NHS when they have enough to cover within the group? What about protection for the staff when things turned bad and it involved litigation.

Yes, it's about generating revenue. Competition? Unfair competition perhaps (that is, using test equipment and other resources provided by the tax-payer).

Yes, they already have more than enough on their plate(s) without scouting around for work "outside".

They are already protected as much as they need to be. Again, at the tax-payers' expense.

Don't forget that Umish was talking about a "Business Unit Manager", not a sensible, practical person!

What about protection for the staff when things turned bad and it involved litigation.


It is a bad practice, I have seen it first hand, the Biomedical Engineering staff working in the department are under great pressure to perform not only to serve within the Main hospital which they are based at and where their primary duties lie.

But also to serve other hospitals, outside and when dealing with breakdown of life support equipment there is added pressure to respond quickly and to get the equipmnent ie the anaesthetic machine up and running.

What the business Manager had worked out was it is cheaper to get the equipment serviced by an in house technician than pay GE $300-400 per hour!

But also to serve other hospitals, outside and when dealing with breakdown of life support equipment there is added pressure to respond quickly and to get the equipmnent ie the anaesthetic machine up and running"
If it is not working the end-user is not getting it back no matter how much he complains, that is how I work.

That is how you work in the middle east, but in the Western World it works differently.....

What? you return faulty equipment, just because you are under pressure. In fact the pressure you feel is self generated!

What we could call (for sake of shorthand) the Principles of "Biomed Best Practice" remain the same whichever "world" you imagine yourself to be in.

In similar vein, hospitals are hospitals, nurses are nurses, patients are patients, customers are customers (idiots are idiots) ... etc., etc.

ok - this is going nowhere.
Thread locked.

I seem to have been doing this a lot the last couple of weeks.