It's that time of year again when Santa IPEM delivers his Christmas letters to us (mugs)asking for our continued allegiance to the cause (registration)
After what seems an eternity (probably about 8 years) the VRCT is beginning to try my patience.

Do I need to be sending another £10?
Will the V ever become C (compulsory)?
Are Dave/Nick as keen as Tony/Gordo?

I feel I am more likely to see England host a World Cup Finals before this thing gets full approval.

Please tell me I'm wrong, I've only got another 16 years till I retire and I can't take the suspense any longer

Patience, Grasshoppa!

I wonder what they do with all those £ 10's?

But I doubt that any of the Whitehall Warriors have much of a clue about all this. And quite right too. After all, they certainly have more important matters to concern themselves with.

Meanwhile, perhaps a few of us should band together and form our own little gang ... but only charge a fiver a year.

I reckon I could could probably come up with a better name ... but does anyone else have any ideas?

Why didn't you come up with this idea 8 years ago Geoff

By my financial reckoning I would be £40 better off (bah)

You would, of course, have to be a Physicist and have to sneer and look down your nose at us meer Biomeds

That counts me out, then.

I'm just a Grunt Technician (but proud of it)!

Yes, it's time they want your £10 again, but is it worth it?

Not sure on that one but bare in mind.

Some trusts have moved it from a desirable attribute to essential, so if your going to apply for a job at another trust you may want to consider this.
There's been the usual sabre waving ohh the VRCT is going to be made compulsory and it's been suggested that the grandfather route might be closed.

What we really need is a progress report, what's actually gone on in the last twelve months and what chance it will no longer be voluntary?

I'm sure Geoff could sneer and look down his nose if he wanted to.......... especially if the money was right!

Lee

Good point Chris, I know, from experience, that this is starting to be the case.

I find it quite laughable tho that something Voluntary should be Essential.

Another slant on this is something I heard first hand, a friend and long-standing IPEM/VRCT member decided he had had enough and informed them he would not be renewing either scheme.

He was informed by them "We are going to inform your employer you have pulled out/resigned"

Dangerous precedent being set here. I have always taken exception to bullying and intimidation

Voluntary means VOLUNTARILY

You're obviously confusing me with someone else, Lee. There's no sneering here, Mate. I like to think that I'm more of an "upfront and personal" kind of guy!

Not particularly motivated by wonga either. Just ask Neil.

@Dave: threats, bullying, intimidation? Just "name and shame" 'em right here, Mate.

Yes, Dave when someone drops out of the VRCT the employer gets notified, they'll also get a list every year of who in their department is still on the voluntary register.

You can also search the register to see for yourself who's on there. Quite a few from our trust either didn't bother or dropped out. There was a few suggestions that they should rejoin as soon as possible, but like usual it went quite again and I haven't heard a thing since.

As Chris says, that's what i'm hearing too.

In my book that's bullying and intimidation.

If (as Geoff asks) "name and shame 'em" then that starts at IPEM Hq if they contact your employer.

As I have stated, this is VOLUNTARY, I pay, I apply ... not my employer.

If I decide to leave that is my choice, same as if I leave the Girl Guides, Samaritans, Monster Raving Looney Party or any such voluntary organisation I decide to become a member of.

Is it illegal for me to practice to be a Biomed and not be on the VRCT.

What the VRCT/IPEM stormtroopers should be more concerned at is if the organisations employing the people on the register are seriously following their own code of practice of "..ensuring suitable CPD takes place ..."

In times of hardship, cutbacks and financial constraints this is usually the first area to be "pruned"

How active are IPEM lobbying your employer on your behalf to ensure that your continued career development is progressed.

In the 8 years I've been paying up I can think of no instance in the NHS and Private Sector departments I've worked in.

Maybe that's why you can say "You don't get much for a tenner these days"

I think they're just trying to mirror what happens on the Clinical Scientist register, so that if it ever becomes non-voluntary they can say that mechanisms are already in place for notification if someone leaves the register.

Although I suspect employers will probably use that information in regards to your employment.

Association of Biomedical Engineers & Technicians, something on the lines of The Directors Guild or Neighbourhood Watch.

We've been through all this before (at great length).

Some people object (quite rightly in my view) to "invented" names like:- Clinical Technologist!

But we get a lot of newspeak in Airstrip One these days. It's one of the "benefits" we gain from being in the EUSSR, I suppose.

Here's another example:- United Kingdom.

The title was also usurped, before the VRCT there was actually Clinical Technologists, but the definition was someone who uses technology not maintains it. If you search on some NHS careers sites it will actually give the old definition.

It would probably have been someone on the medical staff who was in charge of equipment and did front line fault diagnosis before sending it off to the engineering department.

Yet another reason for objecting to it, then.

We all know that the real reason for all this BS is the seemingly never ending turf war between Medical Physics and those of the Lower Orders ... meanwhile (hopefully) the simple Medical Equipment Repairmen will no doubt be getting on with the real work!

The aristocracy versus the serfs? The plebs must always win ... if only because there are more of us!

On the IPEM web site in the section How to Apply for the VRCT the first line is "You must first be employed as a Trainee Clinical Technologist in an IPEM accredited centre." So it seems any new person who wants (and in the future possibly needs) to be registered has to be on an accredited training scheme.
However this does not seem to be possible as there are currently no approved Clinical Engineering degrees suitable for bench technologists, so how can anyone run an approved course or be an accredited centre?
How are people dealing with this when they take on new staff at a trainee level?
Jim (Methven), I know you read this site at times I would be interested on your take on this in case I have things wrong.
RoJo

As a PS to the above,
Obviously there are accredited technologist training centres - we are one - but I am specifically talking about Clinical Engineering Technologists (Bench technicians who manage and fix equipment)and not rehabilitation technologists or medical physics technologists.

This is a list of the approved courses for technologists.

RoJo

Looks suspiciously like Medical Physics Technician to me.

Geoff, United Kingdom or Untied Kingdom

Personally, I do not think that IPEM (and the system set out on the VRCT site) are following the rules set out by UKSPEC http://www.engc.org.uk/professional-qualifications/standards/uk-spec
I think, that what they have put in place, goes beyond what is required.

Scott

Indeed. In the UK, the Engineering Council is the governing body (regulator) for Engineering Technicians (which is what we are).

But as we know, you need to be a member of a suitable Institute or Society in order to be Registered. In my view there should be no compulsion, but if a tech wants to join in the fun, the question must be:- which Institute or Society to join?

We always used to go for SERT or S.X-Ray.T. The latter disappeared when it was absorbed by the (then) I.Hosp.E. I'm not sure what became of SERT (it's probably known as something else now), but I remember that they used to dish out a good "magazine"!

Perhaps IPEM fullfils the need (I don't know) ... but, on the other hand, maybe a new "biomed tech" club is indeed the answer!

I think its now part of errrmm IPEM!

Merger City!

Or should that be:- it looks like we're all in it together now?

Hi,

Based on some of the contents of this chain a few pointers / clarifications for all.

1] SERT is not a body incorporated in IPEM it actually joined into IHEEM some years ago.

2] The pages Ro-Jo refers to his posting above actually relate to the training scheme run by IPEM for those people who which to avail themselves of it. It has nothing in that sense to do with the VRCT see further points below

3] Whilst completion of such a training scheme can be used to access the VRCT register which is aimed at possible state regulation not registration. It is not the only method by which individuals can obtain entry to the VRCT

4] Regulation is not necessarily registration.

5] IPEM is if those who wish a body able to award registration with ECuk for Eng Tech and Incorporated Engineer as well Charted Engineer. As such all asscessments are in line ECuk requirement.

6] I for example am a registered incorporated engineer with ECuk via as it happens IHEEM and also a member of the VRCT to allow for transfer should state regulation arrive.

7] The IPEM training scheme can be completed without the need for additional accademic study via what is called POST route - aperiod of supervised training in the work place normally lasting 12 to 18 months - nearly all engineering personel on this training scheme are progressing via the post route.

8]

Geoff,
I think you will find it is the Health Professions Council who regulates us
RoJo

I’ll have to defer to you on that one, Robert. You would know much better than me.

But for myself, I’ll stick to the Engineering Council. I might even have my old "Tech. Eng." card hidden away somewhere (amongst my souvenirs).

Missed the start of my favourite subject (NOT!!!). Can I urge everybody to keep their Tenners in their pockets. The VRCT is sooooooo 2005. They still haven't asked US the real Biomeds what we want or how any form of regulation (registration!) should be applied. The old arguments are still there, see previous posts. The people who write job adverts that demand membership should be hoiked up in front of a trubunal and asked if they know the definition of the word "VOLUNTARY". More to the point perhaps Geoff and the other tax payers who "pay our wages" should be asking how much time and money has been wasted so far. Perhaps the word Voluntary refers to the "volunteers" who run the show?

Indeed.

Whilst folk on here like to keep banging on about professional this and professional that - amateur is the word which comes to mind!

Geoff, RoJo: I think you'll find that no one regulates us. The Engineering council is actually the regulator for EngTech/IEng/CEng and technically the engineering profession, but if someone doesn't hold any of these they can't stop you performing a engineering role and hence don't actually regulate us.

The Health Professions Council, if the voluntary register ever became statutory, they'd then be the regulator and could strike someone off.

Although if biomedbill post is anything to go by and we don't actually hear any updates it looks like the VRCT is going to die of apathy.

In response to Dave H:
When the VRCT was formally launched (August 2000) there was an expectation that the process of regulating Healthcare Scientists (including Clinical Technologists) would be completed by 2005. Unfortunately, issues such as the Shipman Inquiry and subsequent general elections have conspired to cause significant delays. Additionally, the development of the Modernising Scientific Careers programme and, the further work this has created, has meant another delay to the implementation of regulation. Hopefully, in the coming months, once we receive clarity from the coalition Government, we will have a clear idea of where we are going and how long it will take. In the meantime I know that the VRCT Panel are still working hard behind the scenes to ensure the proper management of the Register. Your on-going support is essential to ensure that the future needs of the profession are met.

I understand that the VRCT website will be updated later on this week (week ending: 10th December 2010)with some new and important information.

Press release on VRCT website.
It appears that the Grandparenting entry route will be closed effective 31 December 2011.

I think that Regulation, in whatever shape or form it takes is still a number of years away. I for one would be happier if this entry route remains open until a clear timetable is established.

Taken from the VRCT letter:


Does that mean that ECG technicians, Respiratory techs, Radiographers, Sonographers, Physiotherapists, ODP's and assorted lab types are Clinical Technologists? They provide "techincal Support" by operating diagnostic & therapeutic devices.

It does seem strange that the VRCT has pushed ahead with training courses etc. when they have not been given PUBLIC approval. The DoH has still not opened a consultation on this register. There has not been any debate on whether we as BIOMEDS want to be part of the VRCT or not. I've made my views clear on this subject in previous posts. If we need to be registered then the registration has to be for US and not include Sonographers, Nuclear Medicine techs and other patient facing staff who work within Medical Physics. The other big issue that concerns us nay-sayers is that the registration does not apply to non-NHS engineers/ techs.

If individual trusts demand that we be registered then why not EngTech, IEng or CEng? Makes more sense to me.

You'll probably find that IEng or CEng is probably harder to achieve than the VRCT whereas EngTech isn't even worth using as toilet paper since it's hardly listed as desirable in job posted.

Although interestingly anybody else notice the eighth paragraph in the Grandparenting closure press release? It made me smile So firstly those who don't join are cowboys and secondly this seems to be very similar to the running gag in The Simpson's where the argument comes down to 'won't somebody please think of the children!' or in this case the public I believe wikipedia defines this as a thought-terminating cliché

Knowing, as I do, how much you enjoy my comments, Chris ... I guess I had better respond.

Frankly, I find all these arguments very specious. The proposition about EngTech and toilet paper could only have come from a bloke safely secure in a tenured position!

Those of us in the Real World are retained (or not, as the case may be) depending upon our performance. That is, regardless of "professional" qualifications, or other bits of paper.

By the way ... I binned all my own C&G, ONC et al certificates years ago. Nobody ever asks for them. I find that prospective employers (and/or clients) are really more interested in whether you can actually do whatever it is they need to be done.

VRCT? It's a load of nonsense. As Bill indicates, the term "Clinical Technologist" does not encompass what we (Medical Engineering Technicians - or Biomeds for short) do. It probably sat quite well with the previous government that we suffered in the UK, but (hopefully) we have moved on a bit now.

I'm sure that those in charge of the VRCT are all Good Folk, with best of intentions, and all the rest. But (personally) I don't see the need for Biomed techs to be included or involved. As far as I can see, it's really a "Medical Physics" thing.

By the way, I haven't noticed the Rest of the World clamouring to set up their own versions of VRCT (although I may be mistaken on that point, I grant you).

I don't see why Geoff, as the fact you obviously didn't bother reading the release here and just commented on my comments just looks silly.

As for the EngTech, lets see it costs £67 to apply for and £26 a year, starts to make the VRCT look like peanuts. Then if you search on a jobs site like Reed you'll find 17 jobs that mention CEng, 1 job that mentions IEng and NO jobs that mention EngTech,why even bother with EngTech if hardly any employer recognises it? At least with the VRCT, IEng and CEng you can see some possible benefits.

Also Geoff in the last post I wasn't commenting on the benefits or disadvantages of the VRCT just pointing out that weird eighth paragraph, it's the sort that could have come out of the lips of Sarah Palin when closing an argument by calling someone unpatriotic. I mean using an argument that someone who doesn't join don't care about the public, they could have at least closed with a similar arguement that not joining the VRCT makes you less of a man!

This one, you mean:-


1) Which "profession" is being referred to, I wonder?
2) "interpreted by some" ... er, who?

Geoff, they have started here with professional registration, without it you cannot get your Iqama renewed. As would be expected here a lot of teething problems, people don't know which body to join. Me, I am classed as a medical scientist (at least that is what my visa says) I have to sort out the registration in January and for once in my life join a 'professional' (I do have better words for it) body. We will see, watch this space!

Time to hand in your toolkit, Neil, by the sound of it.

How do the Filipinos et al get on, I wonder?

But ... register with who? ... the Mutawa?

No, not yet, the main problem and you should know this from experience, is that the job title never matches that of the visa. Clerks registered as doctors, technicians registered as housekeeping etc. Recruitment done on the first available visa. If the immigration department ever gets it house in order over this issue then all would be OK, but it is a BIG IF.

Geoff, next time you call out one of the following: - the TV repairman, washing machine man, the cable guy, telephone engineer. be sure to ask for all his documentation, certificates even ask him which school he went to. Is this what the world is coming to, no trust unless you join somebodies club???

Yes, I remember the "Block Visa" problems very well. We had a biomed whose Iqama mentioned "Agricultural Worker" (very apt)!

I can't see what the visa has to do with professional registration, though, I must admit.

This maybe off topic a bit.
On the subject of jobs and certs etc.
I dont think i've ever been to are conducted an interview (nhs or otherwise) where i've not been asked for the sight of my certs and for that sake the originals not copies.
Otherwise how do they know you are what you are?
Also certs arent just a piece of paper. They are evidence of your success.
For those of you that have indentures and the likes they are like gold dust. Whatever you do dont throw them if you are unlucky enough to come up against someone else on a short list who says they have the same but no proof, you will always win hands down.

Funny that you should mention that, over in Saudi you might not have heard but the Carphone warehouse's support department The Geek Squad had just this problem. So you phone up with a computer problem or a problem with your fridge and what do you get? A Gas fitter! Apparently they do a lot of gas work so if they get stuck they just send a gas fitter.

Going back to Chis's comment about cost. If the VRCT becomes official then the estimated costs mooted for registration would be approx. £200 to register and upwards of £95 p.a.

cost aside chapter 8 shows the "bullying" nature of the VRCT a not very veiled threat to those who don't toe the line.

We still don't know how it affects service engineers both field and workshop based who do not work for the NHS. Surely the public need assurances that when we send a piece of kit to Philips, GE, Keymed etc. that they have been worked on by "Registered CLinical Technologists"? Next time you talk to an engineer from one of the manufacturers, ask for their registration number! If he/she cannot provide it, turn tham away!

How do we deal with the more basic equipment, worked on by staff on lower grades who can not register? Many of the more basic devices still have the ability to "harm a patient".

1) Just because someone has paid his subs, and is on a list somewhere, doesn't make him immune from causing harm (unintentional or otherwise).

2) Private service companies carry Liability Insurance (which also doesn't make anyone immune).

3) EU "rules" seemingly permit idiotic physicians to practise in the UK ... so why not "Clinical Technologists" of similar standing, as well (with - hopefully - far less opportunity to do real harm)?

I could go on ... but will leave things there for now.

Yes, sometimes I do wonder why is it that the authorities require people to pass tests, register on national lists and pay for insurance myself. For example:

1) Just because someone has paid for driving lessons (and passed a test), and is on a list somewhere (DVLA hopefully), doesn't make them immune from having a car crash (unintentional or otherwise).

2) Private companies offer car accident insurance (which also doesn't make anyone immune from having a car crash).

3) UK "rules" seemingly permit idiots to drive in the UK...so why not "some people with a dementing illness" as well.

I could go on and on...but will leave things there for now. I do hope I have made my point.

On point 2) ... I have always wondered why, with all the resources at our government's disposal (cameras everywhere, for example), uninsured vehicles are not constantly being pulled over, impounded (whatever), with full punitive measures applied as proscribed by law.

The same goes for unregistered vehicles, and those without a valid Road Fund Licence.

But are biomeds going to be called upon, then, Mike (and subsequently punished), for not being "certified"? I guess I can answer that myself:- the plan is to debar them from working within the government health services* on Airstrip One! Why? Because they refuse to conform!

Here are some more numbered points for you:-

1) Are "unlisted" biomeds to be regarded as criminals, pariahs (or simply "awkward")?

2) What about biomeds coming in from within the EU (for example), (what used to be known as) the Commonwealth, and beyond? Does "beyond" get special priviledges?

3) What about the Human Rights of the "lifestyle choice" of the non-conforming biomed? "Hey, don't diss me, Man"!

* The largest employer in the EUSSR.

Groucho Marx "I do not want to join a club that will have me as a member"

I never thought much of the Marx Brothers, myself. Too zany to be funny, I reckon.

But their uncle ... Karl* ... now there was a real joker!

* And yet another who gained refuge in London. Which, it seems, is par for the course.

Surely Geoff as an 'old soldier' you had to conform in the past. Perhaps that is the real issue here (i.e. to conform or not to conform). If you don't wish to conform now, then that is entirely your choice. Exactly as it is the 'authorities' choice to head toward registration. With regards to your numbered points:

1. I suspect that they would be treated the same way as any person who attempted to practice as an unqualified Radiographer.

2. I would hope that they have to qualify in the same way as UK Radiographers do.

3. Try becoming a non-conforming Radiographer/Nurse etc and see what happens. Would love to see the Human Rights defence used.

The point is this - registration (in whatever form) is going to happen sooner or later. Fighting against it is a complete waste of time and effort. You may not like that fact, but the fact is still true.

To its probable detriment, and as Sean reminded us all recently, the NHS is not run on military lines.

But anyhow, we are not talking about me. My colours were firmly pinned to the mast a long time ago.

But, for clarity (and perhaps as a warning of the Brave New World to come), can you spell out what does become of any non-conforming *radiographer? Transported to the gulags, I suppose.

So ... it's all a foregone conclusion, then? A fait accompli. Well, I guess that us Brits are used to being dealt that sort of hand, conditioned as we are to accept that Nanny Knows Best!

* I notice that you used the word "unqualified". Did you mean "unregistered"?

It ain't over 'till it's over (hope I got the apostrophes in the right place!).
There is one significant difference between us and a Nurse, Radiographer or for that matter a Nuclear Medicine Technician and that is direct patient contact. I don't know about other setups but we do not work on equipment which is connectoed to a patient or give clinical advice to patients (as much as we'd like to). If in the future we are required to treat the patient then we should have to be registered.

The penny's just dropped! That's what this is all about, if we register as a "Clinical" whatever perhaps we could be asked to fill-in for Nurses where there is a shortfall? After all that's what has happened to the ODA's. Being registered as ODP's they have become specialised nurses. At our trust I've seen job adverts for Theatre Practitioners asking for RGN/ ODP qualifications.

High marks for your apostrophes, Bill!

Here's another point to ponder:-

OK, the Voluntary Register becomes ... er, compulsory. Will the NHS then fire all those techs (many of whom will have been employed, giving good service, for many a year) who choose not to register?

Or, will their names simply be placed on the Register by Unseen Hands, I wonder?

To answer the question about what would happen to a non-conforming Radiographer, this is my understanding. We have had a case here where a fully qualified and registered Radiographer was not conforming to local protocols and subsequently disciplined. Started with a verbal warning, then written, and the eventual outcome was that he was dismissed. This was published in the local newspapers.

Furthermore, my understanding of why we need to register in the first place, I remember reading an IPEM document several years ago where it stated that as Medical Technicians, we have the potential to cause harm to patients. This is certainly true.

Lastly, I have no idea what will happen to all the unregistered techs' when the register becomes compulsory.

They will need to be supervised by someone who is registered and as such will probably be downgraded. Don't forget that when a nurse etc. forgets to renew their registration, they can no longer work at the same grade and most employers will take the, kind, option of employing them as HCA's until they get the renewal through. The alternative is instant dismissal as they have made themselves unsuitable for their current employment.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Ed Bennett
Southwest Medical Ltd

You could always call yourself Biomedical Engineer/ Technician, Electro-Medical E/T, Broken-Heart (machine)repair man. In fact you can call yourself anything you want as long as it's not a "Protected" title. If your management are happy that you are competent to do your job then carry-on mending!

@Ed: 'tis but an infinite regression! Or, if you like, that is the job of "the Watchers" (good folk such as thee, and I dare say, me)!

@Bill: this has the whiff of déjà vu about it. What did I suggest last time:- Medical Equipment Repairman?

Geoff I don't know about the NHS not being run along military lines, but a lot of ex-military do end up in hospital ebme departments.

Also biomedbill yet again I've been shown there's a vast difference between hospitals! I don't know how many times I've had to check out a ECG machine with the patient attached and then tell the nurse the problem was actually patient preparation. Then again there's the vents connected that have incorrect alarm settings and we also see patients and sometimes visit in their homes.

As for what happens if the register becomes compulsory I remember this has been previously talked about. If you visit the HPC website you'll see that you won't be able to use a protected title but you can be called a ‘assistant’, ‘trainee’, or ‘student’. Of course it will be interesting to see if employers permit people to carry on under another name or demand you take a pay cut to trainee grade?

Only if you consider ex-RAF to be "ex-military"!

That's all for now.

Geoff
_________________________
Assistant Trainee Student Medical Equipment Engineering Technician

No, we've had quite a few from the army.

Sounds like you've been fortunate, then, Chris.

A voluntary club you HAVE to join, and cannot leave without consequences. And exactly what value do you get for your money. I thought it was the job of the Biomed Manager to ensure that his/her staff are competent or not.

It is similar to nursing and other medical professionals - I have the qualification and am competent, here is the paperwork/registration to prove it.
It is a lot easier to do than interview people and check up on what they say - especially when you want to employ new people.
RoJo

I am with you on this one Neil!

Rojo how many interviews are you going to, to get your money's worth.

How about this link?


Food for thought?

Neil, I meant as an interviewer it makes life simple.

Registration is in line with a lot of other medical professionals who all have to pay for the privilege.
I am not saying I agree with paying for the privilege of working I am just saying that registration is not unique - we are not being singled out, in fact we are joining the norm for medical professionals.

RoJo

RoJo,

Registration fees for teachers have always been fully reimbursed by the Treasury.
Those in the medical profession have only recently started having some of the fee reimbursed.

There seems to be no logic or equal treatment for registration across the various professions. All I do know is that I have saved lots of £10.00 fees by not joining the "Voluntary" register.

Eagle

This is precisely what you won't be able to do, in the same way you can't call yourself an x-ray photographer and take medical x-rays, unless you're registered as a radiographer (or supervised by one). Staff whose work is supervised are unlikely to make any more than band 3.
Personally I don't think registration is an all good or all bad thing as it is supposed to ensure everyone working in the field is competent to do so (good thing) but is an unwieldy and expensive way of doing so, and probably won't achieve the goal. However it is coming (eventually), and sticking your head in the sand is the best way to get your bottom kicked.

Paul,

As I've probably said many times in previous posts, I'm not against regulation/ registration but IT HAS TO BE APPROPRIATE TO THE WORK THAT MOST OF US ACTUALLY DO!!! If we are to be registered it must be as Medical Equipment Service Personnel (add your own title) not some form of latter day Medical Physics Technician. Been there- done that, didn't like it. We are service engineers first and foremost, we are not Scientific or Academic we repair medical kit, WE ARE ENINEERING!!
Please don't quote lower pay bands as an excuse to join the VRCT, a huge number of us have done ok on AfC without being registered

Apologies for my scepticism

Very heated debate here as usual. Too many people with personal agendas to be honest to take any of it seriously.

I am a member of the VRCT although I am starting to question it's worth (I joined in 2005 as I was told that regulation was DEFINETLY going to happen SOON! - Still no closer are we).

I am also a registered with the IET and Engineering Council.

My manager is not a member, and does not have much time for the VRCT peddlers. He is CEng - if that's not good enough then something is very wrong.

Is this registration going to be official soon - No - The Con-Dem goverment have bigger fish to fry than us little biomeds.

Have the VRCT been OFFICIALLY appointed as the group to join when registration becomes a requirement? The last time I asked it was No. For years people have been saying YOU NEED TO JOIN! Why do I? If im already registered (With a nationally recognised body), to a body that interviews you and ask's you to come down for the day to prove you are who you are etc. why do I need to to join a totally Voluntary register (Voluntary - Not Mandatory). A register that has not actually served to produce anything for my money yet. Im sure behind the scenes people are beavering away. But the only correcspondance you get is in December when your re-newal comes out, little wonder people are starting to ask Difficult question's me thinks!

So if anybody wants to join my group, i'm only charging £4 to join!

Regards of the season!

Paul, I think your comparing chalk and cheese, with the core professions like Radiographer and Physiotherapist you can't really perform those roles without actually being one. You can't really compare Clinical technologist with Radiographer. Some of the scientist roles on the other hand can often be carried out by university researchers who don't have to be registered! The only difference I can see is someone can't provide a treatment program without being registered. Although I suspect that if registration occurs the NHS will demand it and unregistered individuals will probably be classed as assistants and limited to lower bands.

Chris, what will happen to a band 7 if he/she refuses to register, demotion to band 3. I don't think so.

Neil, I think it will apply to new intake as it's already possible to see the vast variation in bands for posts between trusts and give them a opportunity to reduce pay they'll jump at it. As for those already in posts I think this is one thing we'll just have to see what they do if registration goes ahead.

If you guys must persist in prolonging this agony ... better let newcomers be aware of what's gone on before.

So ... from the beginning:- we had this, followed by this.

Chris, that really is encouraging. How many techs will transfer to the NHS knowing they will take a massive pay cut unless they join a voluntary group? Government backing no, accreditation status no. WHY JOIN?

Perhaps you've found the reason the government will support VRCT Neil, they already say the public sector is bloated. Although with the proposed increment freeze perhaps Geoff won't have to get the ketchup out for his shorts after all?

What conclusions can be drawn after reviewing those earlier threads I linked to last night?

Here are a couple for starters:-

1) The VRCT idea is not popular with many real* biomeds (those who get here on the forum, at least).

2) Even after all this time, it may not actually happen (some other scheme could yet usurp it)!

Anyway, surely there are more pressing issues?


* That is, blokes who still fix kit.