500 Trusts? Are there that many (and with x-ray kit)?

Who knows where these figures come from! Monkeys in Brussels?

I (for one) still don't really understand this stuff ... where does the figure of £ 48 K comes from? And - if it's a "given" - what (if anything) can you do about it?

And, more importantly, what work are you actually supposed to do for that amount?

Im sure you are right Geoff about coops back in the 1830's but I wasn't around then. I was in the Thatcher era and witnessed the hopelessness of people at that time who became unemployed.

I guess Im just a Moonwalking Bear

http://www.schumachercollege.org.uk/blog...jonathan-dawson

Well, no doubt you're witnessing it all over again now, then.

And who is to blame this time ... ?

Well thanks for the first correction I meant hospitals. There are currently 144 Trusts

http://www.monitor-nhsft.gov.uk/about-nhs-foundation-trusts/nhs-foundation-trust-directory

So the figure for item 21 is greater than £1M per trust.

So can you give a notional figure of basic items in item 4, comparative to x-ray of the spend in a typical trust?

I'll leave that to others, Phil.

As I've tried to point out, I am resigned to live in the Real World myself.

Not in the blame game. I believe its evolution we need not revolution. I dont want to waste this forums time with issues that are irrelevant so I wont get on my soap box.

There is some relevance though in how we choose to work. There are certain realities that are heading all our way. We cannot rely on exponential growth to feed the current model in a world that is of finite resources. The government knows this but in 5 years what can they do? They barely scratch the surface of the problem.

So yes I think coops are very relevant today as the state shrinks and people look for alternatives.

I am also in favour of open source manufacturing whereby products are made by end users and sw is developed by a community. It might mean the alternative to an iPad is the size of a encyclopedia but the community would have the fun of building it and knowing how it works. This is all part of the same story. Local growth, community, ownership.

You're not wasting the forum's time, Phil ... but with a nod to Billy's original post at the beginning of this thread, it might be worth starting a new topic if we're going to discuss workers' co-operatives.

Yes, co-ops are relevant, but I think you'll find that takers are few and far between. You mention that the state is shrinking, but I don't see that. Successive governments have layered more and more control* over the people, to the extent that a sizeable chunk of the population (it could even be the majority) are dependent. I see them every day, and everywhere I go:- the common herd, immobilized by sloth. Not many entrepreneurs there, Mate. And that's just what the One World Government agenda wants, of course.

It's all very well talking about evolution. But some (most) of us simply can't wait that long!

Anyway, Sam and Dave have already got all this covered:- didn't they call it the "Big Society" or some such thing?

* Actually it's worse than that ... they seem intent on criminalising everybody as well. No doubt we're already well beyond the point where they have a "file" on everyone.

Actually Phil, thanks in no small measure to the internet, there is a fair amount of that sort of thing already going on.

The "Retro Computer" scene, for example, is very strong ... with some of the recent "home grown" stuff better in many ways than the original(s). Check out this thread when you have time.

Us Brits are good at that sort of thing, are we not? The Classic Car (Motor-cycles, Tractors et al* ... Caravans, even) scene also comes immediately to mind. It's great that enthusiasts club together (literally) to keep all that good old stuff going ... now well beyond the design life (if indeed the designer at the time considered that at all - probably not is my guess).

And, of course, Open Source software has always been well supported.

* Check out one of my favourites:- www.spiritburner.com!

We used to outsource some specialist services such as scope repairs etc and do everything else within the hours available in house. Outsourcing is not reasonable for all tasks e.g. the little old lady who used to call in with her nebuliser for service. We used to sit them down and chat to them while we serviced the nebuliser - they thought it was wonderful and also I hasten to add, showed that we cared.

We used to do the old ladies nebulisers as well, but you could not do it these days with the excessive levels of tar and nicotine that invariably coated the unit.

Lee