The new national agreed profiles are out!!

Not much change, so nothing new there.

To all those i had spoken to before regarding being paid AFC money in May, this was cancelled due to "difficulties in pay roll". I still don't know how i scored in my matching interview.
(I am a MTO 3 Electronics engineer)

Tracy

Forgive me for being picky but I think a major change is the exclusion of medical Physics technician grades from the engineering profiles

Note how HNC has now been included in the roles!!! And how much lower the level is for the associated profile for instance. Whereas the specialist role still requires a BEng. Bit late to be including HNC (for entry-level) after a year or two of profiles isn't it? No wonder people who've been putting a requirement for HNC have been banded on lower grades than they expected. Entry-level is now HNC, HND is the "norm" and BEng for specialist. READ THE NEW PROFILES!

There are significant changes Tracy surely you've only glanced at them.

Richard,

The new profiles ask for 'Professional electronics knowledge to degree equivalent level' for band 5 and 'Professional electronics knowledge through BEng in electronics or equivalent + specialist knowledge through postgrad diploma, specialist equipment training + experience' for band 6.
In my view the band 5 profile has bean tweaked slightly but the band 6 is the same as the old profile.
You say that BEng is for the specialist but I read it as BEng + post grad diploma equivalent additional specialist knowledge.
I still believe that a BEng without the additional knowledge to post grad level will only give you band 5.

Ken,

If you actually look at the new profiles, posted by DoH, then Entry-Level (Band4) = HNC, "working grade" (Band5)= HND , BEng+PgC = "Specialist" (Band6). That's a bit more than a teak if you end up being matched at entry-level if you've already agreed to HNC minimum as a "key-factor". As for BEng +PgC that's only a "paper" requirement - unfortunately I can't see many managers wanting to put that as a requirement due to the difficulty in finding candidates with experience in maintenance who meet it, post AfC.

Richard,

The actual paper qualifications are not the deciding factor, it is the equivalent knoledge that is important.
You say that HND = band 5 but the profile says that you need "Professional electronics knowledge to degree equivalent level". If you look at the Job Evaluation handbook, level 5 relates to a degree or knowledge equivalent to a degree.
If your JD states HND and nothing else then this will not be matched at band 5.
When the matching panel looks at factor 2 they use a grid which lists qualifications and the corresponding level at which it is matched. Unless this has been changed recently, level 5 needs degree level or equivalent qualification, level 6 needs degree + post grad diploma or equivalent.

I see what your getting at Ken - cheers.

question.
do you know of anyone that has been down graded due to the items you mention?

I know of individuals on this site that have been banded onto lower equivalent salaries under AfC. Who knows whether required qualifications have been a factor - they are certainly important as one of the indicators used for matching purposes.

I think it is unnessesary for maintenance/repair technicians to be educated to HNC/HND level. Sureley a good ONC is adequate with some practical training to follow. How have we ended up with these quite advanced qualifications for a fairly basic job which often comes down to repairing user abuse and following simple instructions to check performance. The qualification gives no indication of a persons integrity, reliability and committment to quality, and it is sureley attributes of this sort that make a good technician.

Everybody's got the opportunity to do a degree in something these days, it's nothing special. Hence HNC/HND is viewed by some as a basic level of education. I disagree. Although sometimes, even in this job, specialists need the extra knowledge to do their job.

The argument extends to HNC/HND - integrity, reliability and committment to quality have very little to do with qualifications fullstop. That's an entirely different argument.