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#25789 - 05/10/07 01:44 PM
Re: Transitional points problem!!
[Re: Darren Magee]
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Geoff Hannis
Hero
Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 3044
Loc: the path less trodden
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... what's that then, Darren? Take a leaf out of the Postal Workers book? 
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#25792 - 05/10/07 02:21 PM
Re: Transitional points problem!!
[Re: Darren Magee]
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Geoff Hannis
Hero
Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 3044
Loc: the path less trodden
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That just about sets out the Postal Workers' situation, as far as I (don't) understand it. Like you, Old Buddy, I have no experience of so-called industrial action (surely a misnomer if ever there was one). How would I feel? As I've said before, I would walk (as I have done many times before).
Let it be said here that as one of the old school, brought up with values from a bygone age, I reckon that "work is work", and if a person doesn't want to do what the boss wants him (her) to do, then it's "make your mind up time". Work is not a right after all (or am I wrong on that one too?). As I've probably mentioned before, it's a question of "it's my way, or the highway"! That's the real world, guys!
Anyway, come on then, Darren, what actually do you suggest? "Representation on a collective basis" sounds a little, er, vague to me Mate! 
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#25803 - 05/10/07 04:27 PM
Re: Transitional points problem!!
[Re: Geoff Hannis]
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Panander
Novice
Registered: 28/07/04
Posts: 13
Loc: u.k.
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Geoff wrote:As I've said before, I would walk (as I have done many times before).
The trouble is, if you walk too many times, prospective employers will start wondering why you're unable to hold down a job. Regarding rights, the only rights we have are those which we and previous generations have fought for and won. People who don't believe that society is just one epic interpersonal battle for survival get together and start by at least discussing how they can collectively improve their lot and change the world for the better. People power - society is what we choose to make it. Don't walk - if you believe in the NHS or the organisation you work for, stay and fight. Insist on the rights we already have. Otherwise only outsiders will be able to influence change.
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#25806 - 05/10/07 04:40 PM
Re: Transitional points problem!!
[Re: Panander]
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Geoff Hannis
Hero
Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 3044
Loc: the path less trodden
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Nice points for debate, Panander, and I thank you for that (...don't have too much time right now, but may come back to you later)!
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#25813 - 05/10/07 07:54 PM
Re: Transitional points problem!!
[Re: Geoff Hannis]
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Geoff Hannis
Hero
Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 3044
Loc: the path less trodden
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OK, Panander. Correct me if I’m wrong, but what we heard here on this thread was about an unnamed tech, somewhere in the North (of England, one presumes), but working at any rate in the NHS. Apparently, following his three years service, he now feels hard done by when a new-hire has started at the same money as he himself is on. Later it was revealed that what the bloke was really after was to potter about in the workshop for the fifteen years or so until retirement.
Do I feel sympathy for this guy? Absolutely not. And as a payer of taxes to HM Exchequer, frankly I’m not very happy that my National Health Service is populated by such people at all.
You want some constructive advice for people in such a predicament? OK, the guy goes to his manager, and says "OK Boss, this is what I can do for you ... 1) ... 2) ... 3) ... etc. Now, what can you do for me"? I think it’s what John Sandham (and others) might call being proactive!
The trouble is, if you walk too many times, prospective employers will start wondering why you're unable to hold down a job.
It’s a valid point, on the face of things. Unless, of course, you’re like me and say "Who gives a damn what they think"? As an independent myself (ie, someone without a regular pay cheque, and having to live by his wits), I find that there are people about who will pay you to do what they need to get done. Nothing more, nothing less. They don’t care about your past (or, for that matter, any precious ego you may possess).
Rights to this, rights to that ... spare me please. Only those lucky (?) enough to work in over-sized public organizations like the British National Health Service (eg, with security of tenure) have the luxury to start going down that road, Mate.
People who don't believe that society is just one epic interpersonal battle for survival get together and start by at least discussing how they can collectively improve their lot and change the world for the better.
Yes, that just about sums it up (from where I sit, at any rate). I’m not saying that’s how I would like it to be (far from it, in fact). But that’s more or less how things stand in the real world.
Don't walk - if you believe in the NHS or the organisation you work for, stay and fight. Insist on the rights we already have. Otherwise only outsiders will be able to influence change.
I also believe passionately not only in the NHS (as it was originally conceived, that is), but in a fairer and more just society too. But, sticking to technical services within the NHS for the moment, change is just what is needed (and, I would have thought, radical change at that). And if that means "outsiders" storming the battlements of that cosy little world, in a drive towards an efficient and cost-effective service at the taxpayers’ expense, then I say "bring it on"!
Edited by Geoff Hannis (05/10/07 07:56 PM)
Edit Reason: Mispelt the guy's name!
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#25821 - 06/10/07 07:55 AM
Re: Transitional points problem!!
[Re: Geoff Hannis]
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SLR
Novice
Registered: 15/07/07
Posts: 13
Loc: North
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Geoff
No one has 'revealed' that this guy wants to 'just' potter to retreiment. He is a very hard working tech, working in his local hospital who doesn't really want to be changing jobs every few years when he feels hard done too.
Perhaps some people have more commitment with things outside work and can't just keep walking away from a paid job.
Like i stated in an earlier post, all I wished to know is if anybody out there had any luck dealing with a similar situation? I never intended anyone to judge the poor guy and basically call him 'lazy'.
Don't we have a duty as fellow techs to help our colleagues and not turn our backs when they need some assistance?
After all it could have been any one of us in that situation!!!
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#25823 - 06/10/07 08:46 AM
Re: Transitional points problem!!
[Re: SLR]
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Geoff Hannis
Hero
Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 3044
Loc: the path less trodden
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Mornin’ SLR. For the life of me I just can’t see that the guy needs any "assistance". He’s getting paid and he presumably enjoys his work. You say that he’s hard-working. What more does he need (don’t tell me ... recognition)?
I notice that we haven’t heard about the new guy. How do the two of those techs get along? For all we know, the new-hire could be a genius guy. Doesn’t he have "rights" too?
You’ve received some feedback, plus a couple of suggestions. What more do you need? Am I missing something here, Mate?
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#25826 - 06/10/07 09:57 AM
Re: Transitional points problem!!
[Re: Geoff Hannis]
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Mr R J Ling
Mr R J Ling
Unregistered
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There are apparently two problems that concern AFC; the lack of progression of someone who's now experienced and probably ready to move on and the fact that a new starter can be employed at the same grade & salary. I guess the salary is ok for the experienced guy - status is the issue?
I'm assuming that the experienced guy was started on an AFC gateway and that the new starter has not been. The new starter and employer probably negotiated the starting salary. My personal view is salary, terms and conditions are nobody else's business but AFC has been "unfair".
If you're not prepared to progress, and others are, then everybody who's a new starter and willing to move on, irrespective of whether it's "fair" or not, will do so. No national pay system I've worked in within the NHS (3 so far) has been fair to 100% of the staff 100% of the time
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