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Hi Bull,

VRCT and EC(UK) isn't officially a requirement for the job but every job-specification for equipment maintenance jobs in the NHS that I've looked at in the last 18 months shows it's either essential or desirable. If regulation comes along then progression is likely to depend on individuals being regulated, i.e. registered, like other professions in medicine are.

The deciding factor on grade in the NHS is not the job-title and whether it's protected or not, it's AfC, KSF and job-profiling. How many of us out there are sitting on an AfC Band 6 grade in the fortunate position that a matching panel evaluated their C&G/ONC qualifications & experience to be equivalent to Degree with postgraduate qualifications & experience - the same individuals that are knocking the value of qualifications no doubt. The level of qualification being the benchmark not the equivalent experience (which is subjective).

If the NHS had similar standards to the VRCT then I'm sorry to say it but we'd all be on Band 5 if the paper qualifications weren't considered of value because that's where most of the points under AfC are earned (whether you have the qualifications or the equivalent). Note how grading is now related explicitly to Knowledge, Skills and relevant experience - qualifications (or equivalent) in particular - De facto.

I'd have thought that people would have cottoned onto the fact that the NHS employer also sets requirements and if you want the job prospective employees have to meet them. I don't make the rules I'm just trying to make a living and keep on doing that for as long as possible in spite of VRCT, HPC, NHS, AfC, KSF, NOS etc, etc.

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I could go on but i'm off for a pint It's pay day after all!
Is it bitter you're on BB? - sounds like it.

Joined: Jun 2001
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If regulation is about keeping out the cowboys( is that not the innuendo being stitched in here by some) then it'll be a waste of my money.

I do not and have not worked with anyone who couldn't do the job that they are/were payed to do.

Ultimately, if your crap at your job, you'll be down the road.

Here, who are the EBME bods and who elected them to steer us down the Regulation path? Did I mislay my ballot paper?


Cheers
Mark

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This is what Drew wanted to know at the start of this post, still no progress.

Anyone got any good hangover cures?

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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark.N:


I do not and have not worked with anyone who couldn't do the job that they are/were payed to do.


Cheers
Mark
You're lucky I've had to work alongside quite a few (normally company "engineers")that needed to be steered into the correct approach, and had to put right the messes others had made. Fancy a mains fuse holder held together with selotape?

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BB
Yeah, sniff vinegar!

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Interesting interview with the Chief Exec of the HPC on Radio 5 on Saturday morning. The reason he gave for the registration of health professionals is that more and more people are visiting people, such as physiotherapists, without any referral from doctors, etc. Therefore, the HPC checks qualifications, references and so on.

However, as an EBME tech in a hospital, no one comes direct to me - the Trust allocates my work. The Trust have also checked my qualifications, carried out a police & CRB check and, with the on-set of KSF, ensure that I carry out training to ensure my personal & career development. So, why do I need to pay upto £120.00 to the HPC to do all this again????

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Hello everybody,

It’s interesting that registration and the VRCT remains subjects for discussion. Personally, I am member of the IET and it is my hope that they get involved in the process of developing any future registration for medical engineers. With a substantive policy unit, the IET often consult with the Government. Now, the IIE and the IET nave merged it is my genuine hope that they get involved.

As a part of the IET’s recent consultation with members,

See http://www.iee.org/object/AB5EC4A7-A888-396D-C27C141C7ECBFA93 )

I have submitted a recent report to the IET and DoH, regarding regulation of medical engineers, that you are all welcome to read. As always it is based on my personal opinion and the best knowledge and facts that I have available.

See: http://www.medeng.net/IET_Report.pdf

Having followed the HPC as a registrant I have many concerns regarding this organisation. Firstly, the Finance Director was convicted of fraud having stolen thousands of pounds of Registrants money (I found out by hearsay). This information was not available on their website. I was unhappy that as a paying registrant I had not been informed. I raised many questions about training and standards of HPC staff (and their own registration) and was not very happy with the response from the Chief Executive.

The role and function of the HPC does not often appear to be discussed in detail. I feel it is important to understand, what I believe to be, is it’s main role i.e. a disciplinary body. As a disciplinary body, I have many concerns. Firstly that Registrants are named prior to the outcome of any ‘hearing’. It is interesting to see the current list.

See http://www.hpc-uk.org/complaints/hearings/

Secondly, I think it is worth looking at the completed hearings and ask yourself, on the basis of the complaints etc, if you feel that HPC should have been involved and if the results look right. I am unhappy with many, but I don’t have all the facts. However, had the Registrants had been Doctors (with BMA representation) and been disciplined by the GMC would the result would have been the same?

For completed hearings See http://www.hpc-uk.org/complaints/hearings/archive/


Conceptually anybody can submit a complaint to the HPC and it should be investigated. This may be problematic. I have seen a study that shows there is a disproportionate number of men and registrants with ethinic originating names being investigated when compared with the proportions of staff. Are the public more likely to complain against an ethnic minority or a man? If so we are introducing institutionalised racism and sexism. There is a real danger that those complained against just reflects societies bigotry.

Politically and legally I am concerned the relationship between the individual employee and employer is being manifestly altered. Where practitioners are independent i.e. self employed is understandable that a system of control is put in place. However, where people are not self employed it is the responsibility to ensure training etc of the employing organisation. It is important that any system should take into account the employers responsibilities under health and safety law regarding safety to the patient and the right questions should be being asked to the employer not just the employee. Many of the cases I feel could be explained by poor training and are therefore the fault of the employer!

I feel there is a danger that this relationship is being confused and basic human rights may be being lost. I am not sure what appeal rights a registrant has against the verdict but I have been informed that it may only be to the European Courts (If you know more please contact me with the details).

If medical engineers are to be registered they will need a system of legal representation and insurance. Just as the Doctors use the BMA when being considered by the GMC. However, this could be considerably costly. An annual insurance for the necessary legal representation could cost hundreds or even thousands of pounds (Estimate following contact with legal expert). Doctors pay thousands of pounds for malpractice insurance and tens of thousands in the USA.

Clearly these are major issues and I think they need very careful consideration. This is why I feel the IET need to be involved.

Above all I notice that there are some strongly held and highly valid views on the EBME website. I would suggest that all contribute to the Governments consultation regarding Healthcare Professionals Regulation and submit their thoughts on this subject to the DoH.

Sadly, I don’t always have time to contribute to the EBME site as it can take a considerable time to formulate a response at the necessary level so if you have any personal comments I would appreciate them sent directly to me.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this, again, rather lengthy rambling musing.

Kevin


Dr K R Haylett PhD,CEng,MIEE

Principal Clinical Scientist
Contract& IT Manager
Medical Engineering
Manchester Royal Infirmary
Oxford Road
Manchester
M13 9WL
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Kevin, I take it from your title that you're a registered Clinical Scientist - registered with the HPC. If this is the case then did you feel that registration was "foisted" on you?

Regards,

Richard.

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Hi Richard,

To a large extent, I do.

Kind regards - Kevin


Dr K R Haylett PhD,CEng,MIEE

Principal Clinical Scientist
Contract& IT Manager
Medical Engineering
Manchester Royal Infirmary
Oxford Road
Manchester
M13 9WL
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Anonymous
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In your particular job-role what would the consequences be if you decided to "opt-out" (besides not being able to use the title "Clinical Scientist")?

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