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Geoff Hannis #39054 23/06/09 2:11 PM
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The whole point of AFC was to get the pay for the job you do. It hasn't always been as succesful as people hoped. So why not attempt to get what you deserve. Some people may "talk the talk" (any ideas?) but can't "walk the walk". Today we need graduate qualifications just to get a start in any career, we're no different. Gone are the days of a 4 week Blacksmith course and taking a rifle to bits in 2 minutes, things have changed, the sun has come up and gone down many times since some of us trained.

JoLee: Go for what you deserve, if you can put your case across strongly enough and people listen then good luck


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Lurkio #39055 23/06/09 3:10 PM
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If it took you that long to strip the rifle, you would have been RTU'd within the hour!

(are you speaking from experience, I wonder?)

All that you say is true ... but that doesn't make it right!

In my (long) experience of walking, talking ... and er, working, I have found that what a person likes to believe they are "worth", and what use they actually are, are often quite a distance apart.

If you (or anyone else) really wants to establish your true value to the world (not to mention mankind in general), then have what it takes to step outside the cozy little world of the NHS, and test (prove) yourself in the Dark Side! There's no salary, pay banding, pay rises, tax-payers' handouts, sick leave, free courses ... etc., etc. for me, Mate.

And never mind "walking the walk" ... can you still hack the run? smile


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Geoff Hannis #39058 23/06/09 3:33 PM
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Quote:
If you (or anyone else) really wants to establish your true value to the world (not to mention mankind in general), then have what it takes to step outside the cozy little world of the NHS, and test (prove) yourself in the Dark Side! There's no salary, pay banding, pay rises, tax-payers' handouts, sick leave, free courses


Why would anyone in their right mind do this?


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Lurkio #39059 23/06/09 3:44 PM
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Yes ... you've hit the nail on the head, whether by accident or design. Although I noticed that you've skirted around my question(s).

Let's just say that different people have different mind-sets. What is important in the minds of some (eg, the common herd) may not appeal much to others. For instance, for some of us, (what have become) old fashioned values are still held in high regard.

There's really no need for me to elaborate. I assume that people here are generally aware of current affairs in our (once great) country. Oh yes, Great Britain ... a great past that is. Pity about the present, though. And as for the future ... "Third World" just about sums it up, as far as I can tell.

When you think about it (if, indeed you do), it's really just a matter of standards (or, lack of).

Anyone care to disagree? frown


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
Lurkio #39060 23/06/09 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: Lurkio
The whole point of AFC was to get the pay for the job you do.


My understanding was that the point of AFC was to have national standard salary bandings for jobs, eg A senior bio-med technician in Edinburgh would be paid the same as a senior bio-med technician in Swindon. However, I have changed jobs and location a fair few times since it began and it seems that eveyone got something different.


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Cyberdog #39069 24/06/09 5:53 AM
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Just a quick question, having never worked for the NHS (really happy about that) do the seperate bandings ie 2,3,4 etc. have stages within them whereby one is promoted (extra money) until, as the Americans would say 'you are red-lined' then you cross to the next band and would that be based on experience, qualifications or both. Personally I dont believe in banding of any type pay people what they are worth.


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Neil Porter #39070 24/06/09 7:51 AM
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Yup,
there is a foundation gateway at 12 months and a 2nd gateway about 3 increments from the job of the scale. You have to proove you are worthy to go through. But you cant be pinallised if your management held you back from completing actions to go through the gateway.
Great fun.

KM #39071 24/06/09 8:41 AM
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Thanks Lurkio for the encouragment. My initial question was a broad one about banding. Certainly to my knowledge, within the NHS, many departments are dual run by EBME. Myself and my colleague are an exception to the rule in being nurses. It was a condition of the post, as it was deemed that a clinical outlook would benefit the service and its development. The qualifications behind our nursing experience have helped us to offer input into many aspects of the service. I dont feel that being castigated for pursuing qualifications is productive, though I do agree " each to their own" in our own personal journey to a career choice. ( Personally I trained later in life and of necessity as my then husband was critically ill with cancer, and so with that and a toddler in tow I chose to retrain from librarian to a nurse in the hope that I would get a job at a level that allowed me to support us all).I was interested in who runs equipment libraries within the NHS, and if so, what is their banding within the confines of AFC. Our engineers are applying for rebanding, and so we have been advised to do likewise given our role and experience thus far.

JoLee #39073 24/06/09 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: JoLee
Certainly to my knowledge, within the NHS, many departments are dual run by EBME.

We had better remind everyone tuning in that we are talking about Equipment Libraries (the shared equipment store and distribution thereof) here.

Originally Posted By: JoLee
Myself and my colleague are an exception to the rule in being nurses.

No so, in actual fact. I know of quite a few Equipment Libraries where ex-nurses dominate! smile

And, lastly (I hope) no-one was "being castigated for pursuing qualifications". The point being made is that enhanced education (or whatever) does not (and, indeed, should not) automatically mean an increase in remuneration. In other words:- "same job, same pay"!

And (finally), when people apply for re-banding, do they also run the risk of being down-graded? Perhaps it would be much fairer for all concerned (including, I might add, the tax-payer) if everyone was re-banded each year. Just about the time of the annual assessment should do it (I presume there is an annual assessment)!


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
Geoff Hannis #39075 24/06/09 10:57 AM
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As my post is in the Equipment Libraries thread I omitted clarification- soz!

Yes there are annual appraisal and people step up through gateways at certain junctures.

However if a new broom arrives and thinks that the staff in post are unfairly banded in comparison with their contemporaries within the NHS - then they can apply for rebanding ie engineers.

If there are nurses running equipment libraries then I would love to hear from them, as we do not fit easily into NHS job profiles and thus it is hard to do a comparison between JD's!

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