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Master
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Master
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Geoff....do we read between the lines"We have a very small team" that they are looking for new recruits....Australia is on my bucket list,what about you....

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Super Hero
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Yes, I like to think I'm pretty good at "reading between the lines". whistle

I have yet to come across any biomed team anywhere that I would describe as "over-manned". frown

That's why I keep banging on about the need (obvious, I would have thought) to prioritize the work.

Even "back in my day" (and often with myself and my gang "busting a gut", you might say), there were often times when we were way behind in what we were "supposed" to be doing - and, yes, sometimes stuff went "un-done". But, as far as I remember, nothing catastrophic resulted from our (my) management of the situation(s).

On your last point - if I were thirty (forty?) years younger:- yes, by all means. I can't see much future for any keen young guy (not me, then) here in the UK. Anytime I meet a "fertile young mind" I always advise him (and it generally is a him) accordingly. smile

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Dreamer
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We are never aloud to EST a bed with a patient in it, that's crazy! When ours are done if a patient is too ill to get out of bed, the bed is logged and tagged to be done when available!

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Super Hero
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OK ... just to continue (prolong?) the debate here:-

1) What EST(s) do you carry out on beds?
2) Which Standard do you follow?
3) How often do you carry them out?
4) How many have "failed" (if any)?
5) Do you do these EST(s) as part of PM?
6) How are beds that "fail" EST(s) (or PM) dealt with?

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iozzie Offline OP
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Sorry I haven't been on for a while

I have won Beds are now pulled out of service for PM's by engineering and then EST'd by biomed before returning

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Master
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Master
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Hi Geoff, I give support to two 50 bed Hospice's here in Rome, as the is no fixed technical presence I give support on a ad hoc basis for repairs and a programmed visit for the PM/EST, as sure as the Pope is a catholic during my PM visit there is almost always 100% bed occupancy.
In one of the locations the mains supply is 220v split phase, end result the Fluke ESA612 reports a no reference earth message, I have therefore decided ( with the consent of the person responsible for the QC) to use use the alternative method of the EN 62353 for the EST's.
I'm "obliged" to perform the EST, where possible, on beds with patients, as this method isolates the DUT from the mains supply and is current limited, this to me is the safest method available apart from not carrying out the EST until the bed is empty. As both structures have a waiting list with a turn around bed occupancy of approximately 12 hours I can't see the alternative solution (open to suggestions....)
Rare failures are always earth bond centered which result in the programmed replacement of the mains cable.

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Super Hero
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It sounds like you're doing the best you can there, Malcolm. smile

As you know, the Alternative Method does not activate the DUT, and so therefore is not comparable to all 60601 tests (especially leakage currents) ... however, for occupied beds and similar items I should imagine it's more or less ideal!

And ... I'm guessing that where you are, mains polarity is not an issue (ie, can be either way around).

I have encountered the "split phase" situation myself in strange locations many moons ago; our tester didn't pass it's Self Test!

But (more importantly), how good is the building earth in the places you mention? think

Lastly, are those mains cables fixed, or detachable, I wonder?


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
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Master
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Fortunately the building earth is very good.The beds are all Hill-Rom with fixed mains.

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Master
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Originally Posted by Geoff Hannis
As you know, the Alternative Method does not activate the DUT, and so therefore is not comparable to all 60601 tests (especially leakage currents) ... however, for occupied beds and similar items I should imagine it's more or less ideal!
The Alternative method will give you the same result as a open neutral 60601-1 test, so is comparable.

Using the Alternative method offers a massive time saving over all other methods, since you don’t need to reverse the polarity of the mains and you don’t have to wait for systems to boot up and down between tests. It also is safer for both the tester and those in the vicinity of the EUT. No need for insulation tests if you suspect an insulation problem, such as liquid ingress.

This is the reason many equipment manufacturers are switching to using IEC 62353 and the Alternative method. My experience is that very little equipment is unsuitable for the Alternative method.

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Super Hero
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Just out of interest ... I understand (?) that the Alternative Method issues predictive leakage current results.

Does anyone know how (or even better, actually tested) these leakage currents compare with actual values measured using either the Direct Method or traditional 60601 tests?

In other words, how accurate are these predictions? smile


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
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