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mammad Offline OP
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Currently I am doing a procurement for new teaching hospital and now in stage of selecting the brand and model for medical equipment which to be procured and installed.

What I can observed from most of the medical practitioner's feedback is when we presented the brand and model for them to choose, they are more prone to single brand even though there are other better brands which are more economical in term of cost and still in par in term of quality and technology.

One of the reason is familirities. Even we offer a training, they still insist of the brand and model which they are already familiar with.

Is this shall lead to monopoly? Some of the vendor aware on this matter and if their brand fall under doctor's familirities, they will start to increase their price and this will be disadvantage for us a buyer.

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There are a number of ways of equipping new hospital projects, so it depends on which contractual process you have been saddled with.

The most successful outcomes I have seen were where no physicians or surgeons et al were allowed anyway near the process until way after it was too late for them to muddy the waters! In short (and as arrogant as it may sound), they got what we gave them! whistle

By the way, sometimes a "monopoly" (I prefer the word "standardization") can be a good thing:- all patient monitors from the same manufacturer; all infusion pumps; all the x-ray equipment from the same manufacturer etc. In the last case (x-ray) in particular, the performance of the local servicing agent is usually sufficient to steer in favour of one manufacturer. The same can usually also be said of anaesthesia (and often laboratory) equipment, as well. smile


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Originally Posted by mammad

One of the reason is familirities.


Perhaps. But, in my experience there are (were) usually other reasons! whistle


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mammad Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Geoff Hannis


The most successful outcomes I have seen were where no physicians or surgeons et al were allowed anyway near the process until way after it was too late for them to muddy the waters! In short (and as arrogant as it may sound), they got what we gave them! whistle



That is why our approached is to get a feedback from physicians or surgeons and to get them informed what they will received when the hospitals operated. We don't want from the last experiences, the equipments is not used due to they was not early informed.

The agreement that we have is under Private Financial Institutions (PFI) which means we as Private company will equipped the hospital with the equipment as well as build the hospital for them. We do have a list of approved and agreed brand with agreed specification for each equipment gazetted in the contract for us to select. For example, there are 2 approved brands for MRI : philips, siemens. With the same agreed specification, we choose Philips (better in price) for example but due to familirities, the end user prefer Siemens. When we studied we found that in other hospital that this end user works, she/he only works with Siemens.

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Super Hero
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Does she/he get asked to justify why Siemens is preferred? Maybe she/he has a good reason! smile

Meanwhile, I am saddened to see that the PFI model has made it to your shores. frown

OK if you're the contractor, of course; but not so good for the tax payer.

So, in this case, my sympathies lay with the end user; they will probably need to fight the contractor all the way in order to achieve a half decent result.

In passing, the process you outline sounds rather odd. Even the old Saudi MOH process was more logical than that!


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Hero
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Buying through a tender, whereby the end-user does not see the brand or price, only the specification is my preferred method.


If you think hiring professionals is expensive, try hiring amateurs!
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Super Hero
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Mine as well, Neil ... with the proviso of a decent set of specs. smile

To my mind, writing (good) specs is an art ... so that they allow a maximum number of vendors to comply, whilst ensuring that only up-to-date equipment is procured, yet sufficiently generic (creative?) so as not to obviously favour any particular manufacturer or supplier. They should also (like all good writing) be tight, and devoid of any superfluous verbage!

The trouble is (was) that hardly any "clients" were seemingly willing to pay for the time it takes to produce a decent set of specs (that is, not just a cut-and-paste job of someone else's ancient attempts). The only time I got a decent per diem, the gang involved wanted to place Quantity ahead of Quality; they demanded so many specs per day, regardless of equipment type or complexity, and (or) how much research may have been involved. And - they kept adding to the list of details required (first it was typical dimensions, then it was electrical Class and Type), which meant having to go back over old ground, time and time again. I did not stick around very long at that one!

On the topic of "research", back in earlier times, "consultancies" stood or fell on the quality of their Technical Libraries (collection of suppliers' catalogues, architectural text books, standards documents and what-have-you). Some I came across were quite lavish. But now all that is required is a laptop and access to the internet; a level playing field at last, perhaps.

Back in the day, the old Saudi MOH specs became notoriously out-of-date - to an extent that rather wide "interpretations" became the norm. On one project, I actually needed to re-write many of them ... but that was a company hospital using MOH specs (as a way, or so they thought, of cutting costs and speeding up the project - both of which they failed to achieve)! And all that was done whilst trying to limit the amount of Change Order claims made by the contractor. Happy Days!

On another project - for a private hospital - I provided a room-by-room listing free of charge, hoping that we would be awarded the contract for on-site supervision of the construction. We weren't; but that didn't stop the client demanding that I write a set of specs to support the listings I had provided. I declined at that point, as may be well imagined.


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mammad Offline OP
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Yeah, he/she did explained but the reason is not technically justified for example image's resolution, system's user friendly etc. which the other brand also fulfilled.

The intentions is not to burden the end user which they have to put a lot of effort in fighting for the brand that they wants. It is more on contractual requirement and process. We do have an agreement (fixed price) and list of approved brand we can choose and propose.

My actual point is end user may need to give a chance for other brands to be selected. If there were a huge gap between two brands, I am understand but with the reason of "not familiar using this brand" is for me not fair. Training and support can be provided. It seems like, if I am a doctor and well trained with brand A, i don't care with other brand which for me may lead in monopoly.

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Hero
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Geoff, I do my own specifications on excel, modified and updated constantly. using excel allows me to compare all the offers side by side. You must remember though that you are buying the quotation and not the specifications, ensure that the quotation matches the specifications. Apart from the specification AFTER SALES SERVICE is very important.

Last edited by Neil Porter; 21/05/18 8:20 AM.

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Super Hero
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Yes Neil, but who accepts the quotes (bids)? smile

In passing, what's the rule regarding availability of parts these days? How many years from date of purchase? think

I believe it may be better to place a series of overall statements in "General Conditions" to cover such things as:-

1) International standards to apply
2) Mains power specifications
3) Medical gas connections (where applicable)
4) Availability of spare parts
5) Service support
6) Service contracts (where applicable)
7) User training
8) Technical training (where applicable)
9) Provision of technical and user manuals
10) Warranties ... etc.


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
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