Home Articles Downloads Forum Products Services Seminar Contact
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
VRCT audit.. #73003
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 173
Rambler Country
exitwound Offline OP
Mentor
exitwound  Offline OP
Mentor

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 173
Rambler Country
Anyone else get this "threat"? Doesn't sound like its working out for the VRCT if some can simply ignore this nonsense. We all keep ourselves well up to date here in relevant aspects of our job and don't feel we have to prove that to anyone else. I'm starting to question why I'm paying for this and having to suffer emails like the following..


Registrar's Update
No. 17, March 2018



The policy of the RCT Management Panel (RCTMP) is to keep Registrants informed of activities and progress which have an impact on the Register. A brief report follows.

Upcoming CPD Audit
We are once again approaching the time of year when we carry out the CPD audit. The office will soon be sending out the emails to everyone selected for audit, so I thought it may be worth sharing some information in advance. We have seen several registrants removed from the register recently for failing the audit, with some failing to even submit any evidence of CPD. I would therefore urge everyone to fully engage with the process to ensure this does not happen to you.
The RCT has some very useful information on our website here. I would recommend everyone to spend some time reading the information which has been put together to help you all pass the audit if selected. We even have some anonymised submissions from previous CPD audits to help guide you, although I would hope you have already been recording your CPD as it has been happening throughout the year.
Can you also ensure the office has your correct contact details, if anything has changed recently with your email address then you will need to contact us? We don’t want anyone to fail to respond to a request to submit evidence of CPD due to not having kept their details up to date.


5.7L V8 Corvette.. Doing my bit to keep our summers warmer!
Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: exitwound] #73004
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero
Geoff Hannis  Offline
Super Hero

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden

Originally Posted by exitwound

I'm starting to question why I'm paying for this ...


So are we. whistle

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: exitwound] #73007
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 38
Liverpool,Royal Liverpool Hosp...
K
Kevin McGinn Offline
Visionary
Kevin McGinn  Offline
Visionary
K

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 38
Liverpool,Royal Liverpool Hosp...
I don't know what the problem is. We work alongside other health professionals that have to maintain a CPD portfolio to keep their registration, so we should do the same. All that's required is the CPD summary for the RCT so it's relatively easy.

Last edited by Kevin McGinn; . Reason: typo
Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: Kevin McGinn] #73011
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero
Geoff Hannis  Offline
Super Hero

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden

Originally Posted by Kevin McGinn

... so we should do the same.


Why? Says who? think

We are not medics. And neither are many of us are "certified", "registered" or "licenced".

**********

Hopefully not wandering too far from the topic ...

What's the deal with CPD?

Am I right in assuming that the "professional" in question is expected to maintain (and/or demonstrate) some sort of continuity in a log book, or whatever? Who maintains the records (and supporting documentation)? See here* (.pdf), for example.

For those lucky enough to be employed in large organisations like Hospital Trusts, does the so-called Human Resources department keep track of all this? Otherwise I can imagine that a tech's "CV file" might need to be trolley-mounted after a few years!

Is CPD clocked up in hours, "points", or what? And how many per year?

Sticking to biomeds ... what sort of "development" counts as CPD? Manufacturers' training courses, seminars and so forth, presumably. But who decides what endeavours are valid for CPD (rather than simply "jollies", or other nebulous activities), and how many hours/points they are worth?

Does a hundred hours of fault-finding (soldering practice, electrical safety testing, reading IEC-62353 or BS-7671 - or even "on-line research") etc. count?

In the Real World, how "continuous" does CPD need to be? If a person has been away from work for a while (as in, years), do they have to start again, as it were?

And the thought occurs:- can you "self certify"? whistle

Has anyone ever come across any bogus CPD documentation; or are "embelished" CVs a thing of the past these days?

Lastly - does CPD come up when seeking work; at interviews, for example? smile

Meanwhile, I'm guessing that this is what Mr. Exitwound was referring to.

* This guy seems to have had a lot of time away from his actual job (whatever it was)!

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: exitwound] #73014
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 38
Liverpool,Royal Liverpool Hosp...
K
Kevin McGinn Offline
Visionary
Kevin McGinn  Offline
Visionary
K

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 38
Liverpool,Royal Liverpool Hosp...
Many colleagues feel the same as Mr Exitwound, so I seem to be in the minority.

All the documentation, list of activities and CPD Summary examples of are clearly there on Geoffs link.The process of joining RCT is quite rightly challenging so I'm not going to let it lapse and waste that time and effort. I've been updating my CPD summary since 2014 when RCT started auditing and have got used to putting activities in my phone diary then updating my CPD summary when I get time.

Many job person specs state RCT as desirable and tenders for service contracts I've seen have specified RCT registered staff as essential.

A band 6 medical engineer is paid the same as a specialist nurse so should be able to produce evidence that they are at that level. Our non NHS competitors in the private sector are now becoming registered too, so it seems to becoming a benchmark for this kind of work.

A hospital Chair once asked me: "What's the best medical device 'fix' you've ever done?". I couldn't answer because we're all doing that work every day (and night when on call). These can be faults found, procurement, highly skilled repairs or workrounds to get a clinical service up and running. However, none of these 'fixes' are in our CV's but they should be in our CPD activities with a job number as evidence - it would take 30 seconds to tap it into your phone.

I think IPEM could do more to explain the process and benefits - regional meetings perhaps?

However, the bottom line is that no one is forced to join RCT, but when you do you pledge to maintain and update your skill and knowledge in the profession by maintaining your CPD, or drop off the register!

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: Kevin McGinn] #73015
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero
Geoff Hannis  Offline
Super Hero

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden

Not so sure that you're in the minority, Kevin, as I've come across many (on this forum, in the main) who seem to agree with what you're saying.

I have also come across a fair number of techs (working in the NHS, it has to be said) who seemed to take great delight in taking days off from the "real work" to attend (what I regarded as nebulous) "courses" such as "Diversity", "Gender Awareness" and so forth. So no doubt their CPD Portfolios were positively glowing (not to mention, over-flowing).

Needless to say I was always too busy doing the "real work" to attend such diversions, myself. whistle

However, I can see the need for CPD - especially for younger folk progressing through our Trade* - just as long as the process is properly managed (regulated, whatever). smile

After all, many moons ago when I was just a small cog in a Large Organisation myself, we all had to (attempt to) re-qualify on certain skills every year. Depending upon how important the activity was to their assigned role, sometimes those who failed would suffer financial penalty, miss a promotion, or some such downer. Perhaps that sort of thing is what is really needed to keep folk on their toes!

Meanwhile, and unfortunately, I doubt that "my best faults" would hold much sway with the Gods of CPD, because, as far as I can tell, CPD sessions appear to count only when activities are, shall we say, peripheral to the tech's everyday role.

* Not profession? Just to wind-up the Usual Suspects, really.

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: exitwound] #73016
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 565
UHBristol
Chris Watts Offline
Sage
Chris Watts  Offline
Sage

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 565
UHBristol
Every professional body sends out these "threats" I've had one from the IET also, they've got a web page that explains what actually count's as CPD.

HR departments don't keep track of an individuals CPD it's considered an individual choice what CPD you do. The only legal requirement they have is to record your stat/mandatory training. Your line manager should have some input on equipment training as workforce planning.

Reading IEC-62353 or BS-7671 or online research would count, but unless you hadn't done soldering in a long while I doubt soldering practice would. Nursing has reflection and a few companies use black box thinking.

Continuous does mean continuous as if you look at the IET examples your probably doing it anyway and just didn't realise! No embellished CVs aren't a thing of the past if anything it's common. Although it's one thing to claim you've managed x number of employees and other to have a CMI certificate or health and safety training. Yes, you can self-certify if you claim to have knowledge of something this will be tested at an interview.

Although on the question of
Quote
why I'm paying for this
I'd stick with the VRCT for now as employers do state it being desirable with some essential. Although it looks like the Government is asking a similar question as there was a consultation process on professional registers including PSA.

One of the issues is that each professional register acts differently, what might be a red card for a nurse on the NMC will probably be a warning for a doctor on the GMC. Then there's the fact that there are loads of registers so which register do you join? There are some people on the Academy for Healthcare science. To a member of the public, they just won't get all this so there was a proposal of one public facing register.

Then there's the fact that not everybody joins voluntary registers and if there is a fitness to practice question, it's highly unlikely that they will not be on the register. Therefore for some groups, it has been suggested that prohibition orders might be an alternative. The consultation certainly seems worth keeping an eye on as the VRCT might become obsolete.

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: Chris Watts] #73017
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero
Geoff Hannis  Offline
Super Hero

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden

Originally Posted by Chris Watts

... if you look at the IET examples your probably doing it anyway and just didn't realise!


So it would seem. smile

Apparently it's called the RCT now (no V); and the Register holds 2,555 names.

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: exitwound] #73018
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 120
Up North
Rob1234 Offline
Savant
Rob1234  Offline
Savant

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 120
Up North
Go and view the register on the RCT website and then type 'suspend' in the search box - I don't think with 7 suspensions out of 2555 people, anyone has much to fear...and then what exactly are you suspended from? - a voluntary register! laugh

The whole thing is a complete waste of time, effort and money (IMO).



I laugh in the face of danger. Then I hide 'til it goes away.
Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: Rob1234] #73020
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero
Geoff Hannis  Offline
Super Hero

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden

Fair enough, Rob. smile

What's your take on CPD? think

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: Geoff Hannis] #73022
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 120
Up North
Rob1234 Offline
Savant
Rob1234  Offline
Savant

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 120
Up North
Originally Posted by Geoff Hannis

Fair enough, Rob. smile

What's your take on CPD? think


You're going to get into trouble with Huw yet again for going off topic...

But

"CPD is the holistic commitment of professionals towards the enhancement of personal skills and proficiency throughout their careers." - I chant these words three times whilst standing under a copy of my expired VRCT certificate every morning before I start work.

It's something that should occur naturally / shouldn't require any conscious effort within your day-to-day role - you get shown and then you learn how to do things yourself (and then hopefully you pass the info on) - a continuous cycle. There should never really be a point where you stop learning.
Do we need to document it? If that cycle (learn-do(-teach)) is broken somewhere then this would hopefully highlight the problem to someone who cares enough to do something about it. If you work somewhere with a good work ethic, then all documenting CPD does is waste time that could be used productively (again IMO).
It's a measure, for those external to your immediate area of work, that the system you are working in is working itself.




I laugh in the face of danger. Then I hide 'til it goes away.
Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: Rob1234] #73023
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero
Geoff Hannis  Offline
Super Hero

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden

Yes; I agree. Surely it's all about the mindset* of the "Noble Technician"** - the enquiring mind, the "hands-on imperative" and all such good stuff. smile

Although I must admit to having had the dubious pleasure in the past (and not just overseas) of being burdened with "technicians" who seemed to be prepared, shall we say, to simply rest on their laurels (not to mention their questionable, and generally over-inflated, "documentation"). frown

No doubt most of us could suss out a wrong 'un within twenty minutes, without having to recourse to a search through their CPD (or any other) Portfolio.

* One of my favourite words.
** (c) Huw

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: Geoff Hannis] #73030
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 173
Rambler Country
exitwound Offline OP
Mentor
exitwound  Offline OP
Mentor

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 173
Rambler Country
The government have said on several occasions that there is no need for us to be state registered, so what part of NO, do these people not understand.

If it did go ahead then it would be VRCT's excuse to hit us with an annual bill for £200-300 and to spend time with a lot of formal and nonsensical record keeping to provide jobs for them. If this does go ahead, then that's the time to deal with it and not before.

We waste enough time as it is checking emails, infilling KSF with whatever we think will do to get shot of it, logging "cpd" etc, playing the Learnpro games. We're here to look after the equipment in our remit and getting regular access to it is difficult enough without having to spend even more time on a keyboard.

There are just four of us here, covering a 400 bed acute hospital, and doing everything in-house as well as covering five other hospitals, 72 GP/Health centre locations and carrying out duties pertaining to the specification/equipping of major projects and builds. Our time is precious!

This is what we do and we do it very well, but this VRCT bs is in no way constructive to us. I feel its just a vehicle for those to escape their normal duties and sideways shift to an admin type job the same way I used to watch people become union delegates in my past life. Most of us 'hands on' types have no interest in this VRCT and wish only to continue carrying out our duties, and fortunately for us neither do a lot of health boards and departments within.

Last edited by exitwound; .

5.7L V8 Corvette.. Doing my bit to keep our summers warmer!
Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: exitwound] #73031
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero
Geoff Hannis  Offline
Super Hero

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden

Bravo! smile

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: exitwound] #73056
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1
Cymru
P
plins Offline
Newbie
plins  Offline
Newbie
P

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1
Cymru
To say I am disappointed and saddened in equal measure is probably the biggest underestimate I can make about this forum subject to date. As a CPD auditor for IPEM , RSCi and the RCT it would be useful to get some insider knowledge and a qualified opinion, rather than people making sweeping statements about what they ‘think’ the RCT’s role is for its members (both now and in the future) and the value of membership, or not.

As people have already said, membership is not mandatory, however in some instances employers are now asking for membership, or eligibility to be on the register as part of job applications. It’s been almost 17 years since the launch of the RCT (then the VRCT) and in 2015 the RCT register obtained official approval via the PSA, and wrote to employers asking that they consider the register as a governance and assurance way forward for members within our profession. In January 2018, the government report on regulation for all healthcare professions reached its final date for consultation and this is know going to the next stage.
https://consultations.dh.gov.uk/professional-regulation/regulatory-reform/

Whether RCT gets any additional ‘mandatory’ status or not should not deflect from the need to be professional in our work, activities and approach to increasing our knowledge, sharing with others and our focus on patient care. Recording this for our annual appraisal meeting, job performance review or for an official state/voluntary register is the same information.

Some members have also commented about parity with nursing, doctors and the other many state regulated professions. The HCPC methods of assuring CPD has been adopted by IPEM and the RCT in equal measure and passing the CPD audit is neither an arduous task, or beyond the reach (or scope) of every day work for all our colleagues.

Guidelines simply state that.;
1. we keep a record of CPD
2. There is a good spread across the year (no more than 3 month gaps)
3. There is good mix of activities …. 5 types are listed ranging for ‘professional activity’ to ‘self directed learning’ and there are hundreds of examples of what you can use.
4. there is reflection about how the CPD benefits you as a person (in terms of new things learnt, challenges faced or further knowledge required to better understand things
5. How the CPD activity has benefited the dept, patient or employer.

There are more and more examples coming through of what (and how) the CPD return should look like, and after all its only a summary that is required. In addition the RCT have arranged webinars to help anyone submitting their return this year, and auditors are sharing their knowledge too to help members through the process.

As an auditor that oversaw the 2015 (sample) and 2016 CPD returns it was obvious the we all need help and guidance in how to record our CPD and how to meet the requirements. In both years there was a 50% failure rate in simple things such as
a) more than 3 month gaps
b) only 1, or 2 types of activity; instead of the 3 that is required

These simple failings meant the CPD submissions will fail. After all you wouldn’t take your car for an MOT with bald tyres or worn wiper blades (would you ??)… then lets make sure we know what is required and how we can best meet these simple requirements.

I sat down with a colleague at work last week and spent no more than 1 hour compiling his annual CPD return, (his first ever) and it’s ready for RCT submission. We listed all the activities he’s done and anything that we thought would be suitable. And reading, and contributing to the forum and sharing ideas and thoughts with peers on EBME.co.uk is also one of them!!!!!

One of our biggest challenges is how best to write our thoughts and reflections on the 2 factors that also cause us to fail CPD audits ; (benefits for you, and also your employer/service). As soon as you put your mind to it, then it does become easier. Take care not to cut and paste the same statements as we look for that too, and try to think of 2 key factors.

1. What has, and how have I improved?… if not why not?
2. What has reduced, and has it saved time, reduced variation, money, service costs etc.

Don’t forget that there are patients at the centre of all we do and it wouldn’t go amiss to mention the influence you have had on servicing their equipment, care, treatment or saved time and improved their lot.

My fingers are crossed for May’s CPD audit day, and Im really hoping that RCT members do us proud (and I’m a member) and we assure the auditors, our employer, patients, and the public that we are as professional in our approach to our job, education and life long learning as our colleagues in nursing and other state regulated professions.

Last edited by plins; . Reason: typo
Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: exitwound] #73057
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 565
UHBristol
Chris Watts Offline
Sage
Chris Watts  Offline
Sage

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 565
UHBristol
oh dear, I hope Mr exitwound is at the top of their band wink
Unfortunately, with the new pay deal, you can expect more emphasis on KSF, appraisals and CPD. At least you can thank some of those union delegates for insisting on a transition period. The original proposal was for immediate implementation, no development or appraisal no more increments.

Sounds more like you've got a staffing problem there. You work for roughly 1762.5 hours in the year of which most bodies specify 30 - 40 hours CPD. That's about 2% of your time doing CPD, that's less time according to some reports than in the toilet, or attending meetings or reading emails.

Hope Huw doesn't mind me going off topic a bit to excel the ebme seminar coming up soon but last years was highly interesting. Although I do note that where some delegates were encouraged to attend whereas others had to negotiate the release. If you have to spend 100% on the tools there's something seriously wrong with your organisation! whistle

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: Chris Watts] #73059
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero
Geoff Hannis  Offline
Super Hero

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden

I'm not Feeling the Love here, guys. whistle

All these acronyms are indicative of what happens when organisations become "Too Big to Fail" ... they become bloated bureaucracies that spend far too much time (and, in some cases, all their time) on internal politics and what-have-you, rather than cracking on with the real work to hand. frown

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: Chris Watts] #73060
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,309
Wales
Huw Online content

Hero
Huw  Online Content

Hero

Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,309
Wales
Originally Posted by Chris Watts

Hope Huw doesn't mind me going off topic a bit to excel the ebme seminar coming up soon but last years was highly interesting.

How could a comment like that ever be construed as being off topic, Chris... wink

Geoff however... [Linked Image]


Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: exitwound] #73436
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 141
UK
leonius Offline
Expert
leonius  Offline
Expert

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 141
UK
I must admit I was a longstanding member (Almost from the very beginning)and even wrote the need into the job descriptions for the department.
When a Flaw in the renewal process left me on the expired side, I was at cause to evaluate the benefits of registration. Whilst I want the registration to be Mandatory, As i belive this is the best for all. I do not think that theRCT are competent in meeting the standards that they aspire to. The shear fact I found myself in the position I did, was equally their fault. I could not consider reapplying out of principle. Likewise I have now "written out" the need for the whole department even as a desirable.
I still see the need to have a big brother and have found an already regulated one.I am busy embedding this. At least this one approaches its renewals in the standard way.That way if you get removed its for a genuine reason.

This might sound like bitter grapes and for the best part is. However if they wish to be taken seriously and do audits of their members activities they need to get their own house in order, and meet the current standards. That all the other regulated organisations do. The comments of "It would cost too much" to do a proper job. Just alienated me just further. My ethos is "value for money but it must be a proper job"

I am lucky in the fact I can make the call for my team, and I was the person with the problem. If I had taken it at face value and it had been a member of my staff they could have lost their job along with their registration.
All I can say is best shot of them (the RCT) and I hope that all the existing and potential members consider the very low membership costs as indicative of the standards they set themselves. i urge them to exercise their right, and leave before its too late. If we are worth any salt. We want to do a good job and should demand better standards not bureaucracy.

Last edited by leonius; . Reason: grammer and clarity
Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: exitwound] #73438
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,803
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Neil Porter Offline
Hero
Neil Porter  Offline
Hero

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,803
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
'hoisted by one's own petard'


If you think hiring professionals is expensive, try hiring amateurs!
Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: leonius] #73441
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero
Geoff Hannis  Offline
Super Hero

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden

You were doing OK until I got to this:-

Originally Posted by leonius

I still see the need to have a big brother and have found an already regulated one.


Why? frown

And then, which one?

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: exitwound] #73442
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 141
UK
leonius Offline
Expert
leonius  Offline
Expert

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 141
UK
.Isn't it nicer to have someone else say you are doing a good job. I know we do a good job, but no one who pays listens to me.
The difficult my team do immediately the impossible takes longer.

Re: VRCT audit.. [Re: leonius] #73471
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden
Geoff Hannis Offline
Super Hero
Geoff Hannis  Offline
Super Hero

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,604
the path less trodden

"The impossible we do in a day. Miracles take a little longer." - Brigadier (later Major-General) Orde Wingate (Burma 1943). smile


Moderated by  DaveC in Oz, KM, RoJo 

Who's Online Now
5 registered members (Roma, Huw, Dustcap, meelika, 1 invisible), 641 guests, and 32 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums25
Topics10,306
Posts69,976
Members9,298
Most Online1,391
Mar 26th, 2018
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2