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Using an anaesthetic machine to ventilate covid-19
#75150 29/03/20 8:06 AM
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Umi Offline OP
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Hello everyone especially anaesthetic machine experts, as the crisis continues would you be able to share tips and information on the possibilities of using your anaesthetic machine to ventilate are and support a Covid-19 patient when no ventilators available and the option of using an anaesthetic machine as a last resort?


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Last edited by umish; 29/03/20 8:07 AM.

UMi-007

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Re: Using an anaesthetic machine to ventilate covid-19
Umi #75151 29/03/20 9:45 AM
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In short, using the diagram you have given, it won't work; it does not show the (anaesthetic) ventilator.

And anyway, why start tying up anaesthesia machines?

The last resort is, as always, the Ambu bag.

Other self-inflating manual resuscitation bags are available.


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
Re: Using an anaesthetic machine to ventilate covid-19
Umi #75174 31/03/20 8:56 AM
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Umi Offline OP
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From the front line most hospitals have cut back or virtually stopped routine surgery.... so there are many anaesthetic machines not being utilised..... now you might understand where I am coming from old chap.


UMi-007

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Re: Using an anaesthetic machine to ventilate covid-19
Umi #75175 31/03/20 9:25 AM
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To be honest, no ... I don't understand.

What about emergency surgery?

But more importantly, most (if not all) anaesthetic (or "theatre") ventilators can be run without an anaesthesia machine. Gas supplies need to be consider (that is, be available) - just as they would with an anaesthesia machine - and generally an oxygen-air mixer would be needed. However, as the type (name) implies, anaesthetic (or "theatre") ventilators are generally not suited to use in an ITU situation.

As already mentioned, an anaesthesia machine by itself (without a ventilator) cannot ventilate a patient ... unless you're prepared to have someone sitting there squeezing a rebreathing bag.


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
Re: Using an anaesthetic machine to ventilate covid-19
Geoff Hannis #75179 31/03/20 12:14 PM
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Umi Offline OP
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We are talking about modern day anaesthetics machines with all the bells and whistles not the good old boyles....

Last edited by umish; 31/03/20 12:15 PM.

UMi-007

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Re: Using an anaesthetic machine to ventilate covid-19
Umi #75181 31/03/20 3:06 PM
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smb Offline
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Hi, see attached link for GE kit.
https://www.gehealthcare.com/-/jssmedia/3c655c83bd6b427e9824994c12be0da5.pdf?la=en-us

Basically avoid low-flows, keep the fresh gas to around 4-5 lpm to avoid too much moisture, change soda lime regularly, remove vaporisers and flush system of all agent. May need to adjust alarm limits etc.

Re: Using an anaesthetic machine to ventilate covid-19
Umi #75189 01/04/20 8:41 AM
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Umi Offline OP
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Morning all,

Thanks for sharing SMB, would anyone have similar information for the Drager anaesthetic machine?

Last edited by umish; 01/04/20 8:42 AM.

UMi-007

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Re: Using an anaesthetic machine to ventilate covid-19
Umi #75199 01/04/20 12:24 PM
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Check your inbox.


30 years since the Chernobyl disaster and yet we still have no super heroes or zombies.
Re: Using an anaesthetic machine to ventilate covid-19
Umi #75238 05/04/20 7:03 AM
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Umi Offline OP
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So using an anaesthetic machine is an option but the key is to liaise with the relevant manufacturer of the device you are intending to use.

There is also a possibility of using a single ventilator on two patients....anyone can share any experience of this option?


UMi-007

"WORK SMART NOT HARD !"
Re: Using an anaesthetic machine to ventilate covid-19
Umi #75242 06/04/20 7:28 AM
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I would stay away from the idea of placing two patients on a ventilator. It works with test lungs but humans react very differently to test lungs. I would let the clinicians decide that move and not even suggest to them beforehand.


30 years since the Chernobyl disaster and yet we still have no super heroes or zombies.
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