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#8469 23/01/03 11:19 AM
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On the subject of "Assault and Battery" try this:-

The defendant, who was on trial for assault and battery, claimed he barely pushed the victim. The prosecuting attorney, treating this story with derision, aggressively cross-examined the defendant. Finally, the prosecutor invited the defendant to step down from the witness box and demonstrate with the prosecutor how hard he had pushed the victim.

Secretly, the prosecutor assumed that, reacting to the hostility of the cross-examination, the accused would push him fairly hard, thereby guaranteeing his conviction.

The defendant no sooner stepped off the witness stand when he started punching and battering the prosecutor. Finally, after he had given him a righteous thrashing, he turned to the jury.

"I pushed the victim in this case about 1/20th that hard."

The jury unanimously acquitted him laugh laugh laugh


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#8470 23/01/03 12:25 PM
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You need putting in a CELL ON
A CHARGE.... laugh

#8471 23/01/03 1:37 PM
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Oh what sufference,my friend, sufference wink


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#8472 27/01/03 5:36 AM
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Well after the 'goading' I have received from 'Admin', I feel obliged to add a serious note to the discussion by adding some technical points as food for thought and general interest, something that I like very much about the site as it allows one to learn from others as well as give useful relavent info. in return. As you say John, I can do better than just 'make light' of the issue. So here I go. As the American TV show is titled "you asked for it!"

In the case of 'foreign objects' in the body,particularly metallic ones, and those with electronics in them, RF energy can be in some cases, a big problem. The two clinical areas that need to be considered are Surgery and Physiotherapy. On another occasion, perhaps the patient might have been destined for either of these areas. Both types of Diathermy units are employed and both are capable of, and responsible for, generating copious amounts of heat in the patient when RF is applied. In the case of metal objects, RF electromagnetic energy can be absorbed or reflected. If absobed it materializes as heat build-up. (A problem occasionally encountered when an internal or external Pacemaker connected to the patient is in the working area of a diathermy, that of the RF really upsetting the operational working of the device - (as it could to IV pumps ect).
In the case of Surgical Diathermy (electro-surgery), a large amount of current passes through the body to the plate. One could surmize that if the battery in question was in a particular orientation, say directly in-line with the main current flow direction, RF current passing through the battery might well excite the contents of the battery. If so, then this could well cause a very high heating effect and a consequent build-up of gas pressure internally, adding to any gas pressure that may already be building up due to a high? discharge-current (depending upon the kind of battery-Alkaline etc), provided, as already mentioned in detail by John and Louis, by the intestinal fluids shorting Pos. to Neg.

Since the very nature of this diathermy is to be able to produce sparks if required, amongst its various modes of operation, then with such a combination of heat, pressure and gases in sealed containers and in bodily cavities the conclusion is obvious. And perhaps RIP at the worst for the patient? In theatres, the diathermy is kept well away from gaseous areas at all times because of the bowl's own build-up of Methane and Hydrogen through digestive action. (To avoid this, the patient being instructed not to eat, long before the op.)


As for Medical Diathermy, the principal is slightly different but the potential for an unexpected heating effect is still there. The radiated electro-magnetic energy passes by capacitive, or inductive radiation effects into the body and this can then, at the same time, induce strong heating effects within metal objects inside the body. The same scenario for sealed metal objects having circulating electric currents within them caused by their orientation to the strong field(perhaps at right-angles to the raidated field's direction for maximum indcutive and capacitive effect) may quite likely produce a potentientially explosive situation within the body if applied for long enough. In this case there may not be an explosion due to sparks (as in the case of the surgical diathemy) but an explosion due to pressure build-up as the battery case, or more likely the ends, ruptures and the chemicals and gases do their worst inside the body. Treatment with medical diathermy is always subjective - operator-controlled heat-wise to suit the patient's comfort or feeling ability. Build-up of heat inside the patient (and battery) therefore may or may not be significant to cause the battery to rupture.

All my above discussion is purely a technical surmization without any basis to a real-life incident occuring, of course. One has to hope that it never has and never will happen to anyone. However, there is no doubt that you took the best action, that of erring on the side of caution, if for no other reason than you were unsure, advising no electro-surgery to be carried out until the offending potential danger was removed. Dealt with by yourself in a most professional maner, Sir. Nothing less expected from a competent Medical Engineer.

#8473 27/01/03 8:49 AM
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My theorization exactly Nick my fellow master of catholicon, Louis could not have put it better. Take a bow my good Arabian friend, take a bow. wink Ostentation, my fellow inamorata's ostentation. smile

Regards Louis III


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#8474 27/01/03 8:03 PM
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Nick,
Sounds perfectly logical. As you said "caution".
Best not to take any chances - patient safety comes first. smile


Be Proactive and reactive.
#8475 07/02/03 4:58 PM
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the surgeon wished to transfer the patient to the private wing but was quite annoyed as the patient was already charged.

#8476 08/02/03 5:36 AM
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Dont you mean discharged my good man confused


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