Joining VRCT and IPEM registers is currently voluntary for all practicing medical device engineers. Should there be a mandatory body that regulates all medical device engineers wether working in the NHS, private service providers or OEM suppliers.
There are engineers within the industry who do not understand the fundamentals but have progressed to become senior engineers and/or are working on high risk devices whilst other skilled competent engineers have been left behind. If there was a standard that all engineers adhered to, then they should see significant progression and development within their careers.
There are engineers within the industry who do not understand the fundamentals but have progressed to become senior engineers and/or are working on high risk devices whilst other skilled competent engineers have been left behind.
What do you base those assertions on, I wonder?
Or are they just your own opinion?
Therein lies the problem, anyone using the job title 'engineer' by normal conventions, has an accredited qualification and demonstrably relevant experience.
Within the medical device world, the use of the term 'engineer' is commonplace, but not necessarily accurate.
There are many competent and experienced practitioners who have progressed through a more traditional city and guilds route, who could demonstrate the fundamentals in their sleep, but are happy to remain on the tools.
Some people gain advancement through different skill-sets, and progress without that fundamental knowledge up the greasy pole of advancement. Most departments have them, not really an issue, as their forte may be paperwork / communication which is also a valued skill-set.
As regards greater regulation, that particular subject has been done to death.
Be careful what you wish for.
Yes, Sean ... a lot of sloppy terminology often gets banded around. For instance, engineer versus Engineer!
The CEI used to use:-
1) Engineering Technician
2) Technician Engineer
3) Chartered Engineer
... and so forth. Are these terms still used?
Another consideration is that of "appointment"; if you are a technician and then taken on as "Chief Biomedical Engineer", do you still call yourself "technician" (which would be very confusing for those around you)?
In my experience, it was only in "foreign climes" that people made much of a fuss about insisting on the word Muhandis. I always preferred to remain understated myself, and was usually more interested in actual results (aka "getting the work done"). Needless to say, I have come across many Engineers who were (in my opinion) "educated idiots" - and/or sometimes dangerously over-confident (other terms may apply); happily, I was usually able to get rid of them.
"Happy to remain on the tools"? Yes; such good folk are proud to be known as Noble Technicians. The other tasks you mention are best left to clerks.
By the way, I thought that the VRCT had dropped the "V"?
@Sazza:- I believe that the basic solution to the issues you raise is that of training.
I have never understood why an organisation that employs (what is it now?) one and half million people does not offer a national training scheme for medical equipment engineering technicians.
There could (should) be a path of training progression, with each course earning qualification for promotion, and so forth ... Foundation, Advanced, Specialist and what-have-you.
If everyone working in the "trade" was required to follow the same (common) training regime, then we would all know where we stood. This was the way it was done in the Armed Forces, so I can't see why it can't be implemented within the £ <many> billions budget afforded the NHS.
When it comes to "registration", as I have mentioned (many times) on here before, I favour something on the lines of the CBET certification scheme found in the USA. This is an examination based qualification ("fundamentals" included).
@Sean - I think the greasy pole of advancement needs to be phased out as this is what is devaluing this profession. If their forte would be paperwork / communication and less hands on skills then this would been seen as more of an administration role. At the end of your day you are given an opportunity to progress but its up to the individual to take it.
I have seen clinical staff ask technicians / engineers basic questions (OEM applications specialists not required) regarding the operation on devices and they have failed to explain it to the clinical staff, this should not be the case.
@Geoff - you are indeed correct, however it needs to be structured training. No matter when you enter the profession within the NHS or private capacity you should follow have the relevant educational credentials, work experience and follow a structured training path. At the early stages the technician / engineer would gain their fundamental knowledge.
A program like CBET makes perfect sense of working, you get placed on a certified training scheme the USA offers for BMET's. If standards are adhered to then you are given the credentials along your chosen career path.
This on-going issue keeps coming back as it has never been solved, its like a fault that's never been fixed, root cause analysis should be carried out at top level to identify and rectify the industry. Can a unstructured industry we are in be fixed?
Structured training? Yes; step by step. With hands-on experience (at least a couple of years) between each level.
Unstructured industry? I assume you mean the NHS. So, no; I doubt it can be fixed. It's too big, too unwieldy, and "engineering" does not really sit at the Top Table, if you know what I mean.
But don't despair. The last time I looked, things outside the NHS are generally, shall we say, a bit more organised. Tighter, and very little (if any) "dead wood".
Agree, a fool proof training plan would ensure we create and retain competent engineers within the industry.
After the Covid-19 pandemic began engineers have been bought to light and appreciated more. The whole industry is unstructured, I don't mean the NHS I mean everyone, including private companies (3rd party & OEM) as well. I can clearly name and shame companies but I am remaining professional and not going to do this.
BMET qualifications and structure will aid it in being fixed for future generations entering this profession.
@Sazza, after you progress above a certain level into the realms of Band 7 / 8, you carry out more paperwork and less hands on as the focus of you role shifts, (have a look at the changed priorities of the A4C job descriptions).
Not so much administration (as you refer to it), as supervisory / managerial.
Look at your own department, how much time does you Manager spend on the bench fixing things?
Do you class him/her as a Biomed or an administrator (or both).
Sometimes you have to look a bit further than the end of your nose, and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the value of managerial / communication skills in any biomedical department. All the boring paperwork, regarding budgets, equipment approvals, staff development, compliance with statutory legislation needs doing by someone.
Some free advice, the expression of dismissive views towards a significant portion of the workload of supervisors / managers is hardly going to help your personal advancement.
@Sean - this was not about being band 7 or 8. This conversation started about having body regulating medical device engineers, where they follow a structured training program to understand the fundamentals when they enter the industry.
How can you have a entry level engineer working on anesthesia or ventilation without understanding the principles and fundamentals.
It seems you have misunderstood this and drifted into a managerial capacity. I am looking further than my nose, you did call it a 'greasy pole of advancement' and by following a BMET structure this will look out for the future of this profession.
There are engineers within the industry who do not understand the fundamentals but have progressed to become senior engineers and/or are working on high risk devices whilst other skilled competent engineers have been left behind.
Sour grapes
The essence of working for the NHS is that you are basically working for the public.
It is the public tax payers money....that pays your salary
So its would be a reasonable @Sean for a well Qualified EBME manager to drop his pen for a few days & pick up the tools and help clear some urgent backlog in the workshop.
"So its would be a reasonable @Sean for a well Qualified EBME manager to drop his pen for a few days & pick up the tools and help clear some urgent backlog in the workshop"
If nothing else at least it would give the staff in the workshop a laugh in these dark times we are in. But seriously could they be trusted on the tools ?