I just want to get any idea from all my member. My GA machine modeled, Drager Primus. The problem is the oxygen sensor for this type of model frequently need to be changed. Normally it can withstand until 6 months, but for my asset every month need to be change for it's oxygen sensor.

is it because of the environment or the design itself? I hope anybody can help me to figure out this problems. Thanks

Hi Mammad there are a few reasons I can think of! I am In Saudi Arabia and yes the climate can affect them! First thing is the amount of time they are lying around in transit i.e. sitting in some freight terminal sweltering away! We have found that storing them in a refrigerator on receipt helps maintain their shelf life! Another factor is "exposure to O2 time" It is always wise to purge the Primus (or any other AWS) with air after use! Constant exposure to O2 rapidly deteriorates the cell!

Hope this helps

Eddie

actually eddie, I quite new with this machine. So i am not understand the operation of the machine. can you give me a details on how the machine works. It will be help me a lot...

Thanks I

Hi Mammad, are you unfamiliar with this particular machine or Anesthetic machines in general?

Eddie

Anesthetic machine in general. I was asking to do a report for this machine, so that is why I quite blur about all this thing..

Hi Mammad, I will dig out some stuff and email it to you! Believe it or not these machines are VERY basic! Meanwhile there is a ton of material on the web! I am sure other members will post a link or two! Try studying a block (System) diagram whilst identifying the various parts on the actual machine!

Regards

Eddie

thank you so much... this is my e-mail, muhammadraszeman@yahoo.com

thanks once again...

Your welcome Mammad!

Eddie

You need to check the sensor voltage readings against the service software.
There is also a warranty date stamped on the underneath of these cells if it fails inside the warranty date send it back, you may get free replacement if its a genuine failure.

Hi Karl, The problem we face here! Sensors shipped from Germany and left standing in a crate in the hot sun for weeks before being processed! Drager have replaced them for us in the past but its just a continuous loop! We have the same problem for batteries too!

Hows tricks? All the best for 09!

Ed

Yes, that's exactly the sort of problem faced in many places "overseas". As daft as it may sound, it can sometimes be more cost-effective (not to mention expedient) to fly someone out to hand-carry stuff back through. You need to be careful who you send, of course, as it has been known for such couriers never to be heard of again!

Ed,
Youve got the sun / heat I've got O2 cells / batteries that last longer. Mmmm whos got the best deal there then.

There is somethin gelse you can do.
Upgrade the machine to none consumptive gas bench.
I think this costs about £2k p/machine.

Karl your funny you are! You have also got Beer and bacon butties! I have nay But I do have a long catheter mount! 18" to be exact! How to get it to you?

Regards

Ed

This is intersesting! I will follow this up! Thanks

Ed

yesterday, I discussed with my collegues about this thing. Actually my hospital is quite new and not so much of patient. It is because my hospital is five star hospital, so it was so expensive. Normally CEO and oversea stuff enter here. But the amount of equipment is too many, 2000 and more.

Actually this machine was not so much used, but when I asking my friend, she tolds that eventhough the machine was not used, they still connect it to the Oxygen ports. Is this also can contribute in damaging the sensor?

Mammad
If the anaesthetic machine is connected and there is some sort of flow (basal or otherwise) going across the cell (sensor) and the concentration is >21% the cell will deteriorate quicker.
Best practise here is that at the end of each working list the machine is disconnected from gases and the gas lines hung over the top of the machine so that whoever uses it next is aware of the disconnection.
Also if the cell is on a flylead connector it can be disconnected in the same way.
Should the machine not be getting used for an extended period its best to remove the cell.

This maybe the cause of the shortening the lifetime of your O2 sensor. Pls note that your sensor is of the electrochemical type and the lifetime of the sensor depends on the amount of electrolyte and material present for the reaction as well as the exposure to oxygen. As Karl has pointed out earlier, disconnect the gasline when not in use.

Oxygen cells

Im sure I said that earlier Oh well!

Eddie

Patience, brother Eddie, patience!

Living out here mate Im used to it lol!

Eddie

On the subject of the Drager Primus, does anyone (Geoff?) have any opinions regarding their ease of use, service, repairs, spares cost and availability in a geographically-isolated situation (and can they make a good cup of tea..oh, sorry, that would be a Primus STOVE)?!

We have some Ohmeda Excel II's which we want to plan to replace, and I'd appreciate any input.

Thanks.

Reassuringly Expensive springs to mind !!!

The Primus? It's a great classic stove, as you mention (please accept this in the spirit intended)!

But, as regards the Dräger ... well, in the circumstances that prevail where you are, I think I would get stocked up on spares and persevere with what you already have. Presuming, of course, that they have served you well thus far.

But here's my chance (once again) to promote the engineering approach. Why not draw up your spec first? Supposedly, considering where you are, all the points you mention have a relatively high weighting (as opposed to some of the modern features of the Primus and contemporary machines). I would also add "demanding" climatic conditions (humidity, especially), and irregularity of mains power etc. Both things that can easily lead to the early demise of modern kit (as you must well know).

Coupled with:- why are you changing? I'm guessing that would be because young anaesthetists want the latest knobs and whistles (and probably "can't work without them").

Then, when looking carefully at your list (spec), you may well find that the simplest machine would suit you best. You can then look, for example (and with an open mind, we hope), upon offerings from China (as in, let the sunshine in), or even perhaps, the famous Glostavent!

But why not think British? We need all the help we can get!

yeah eddie, u rite.. huuh.. one more thing, is any way we can manage to minimize the defectiveness of water trap. because it quite a number we have to replaced it and I want to know what are the thing that can spoilt the water trap.

Mammad
The water trap was upgraded sometime ago the newer ones have a green dot on the inside surface of the top. its supposed to be changed at regular intervals, but you can drain it by sticking a syringe on one of the legs protuding out of the top, as per user manual.

Hi Tony
Our Primus is an older model so it doesnt need disposable O2 sensors. Some "teething" problems during the install but then its all gravy. I've forgotten my Primus service training as I rarely go to do work on it. We got the machine inspite of the local dealer as Draeger was actively supporting us.
We also have Julian so it was easy for the endusers to get acquainted with the machine.
It was a difficult decision between Drager and Penlon. It came down to enduser choice.

hye, i try to remove all the hoses after I shutdown the machine. tomorrow I run the self test, the O2 sensor still failed. Is it other factor that cntribute for example environment humadity or etc. I read in manual, it stated that when calibration was done, ILCA solenoid valve is switcehd to room air. What this means, is this also contributes to O2 calibration....

Hello, I have a Primus with a problem. In the Autotest the ventilation mode fails on the Electronic paramether. The little circle turns yellow instead of green.
The message displayed is "Failure in internal ventilator for the gas evacuation"

Can somebody help me to solve this alarm?

try pulling the vent out on its slide and then resetting making sure its in and there is a positive click as it reaches the lock point.
Ive had similar and just doing this resolved it.

i also tried the same way you did. Its ok. But after the next day, the calibration fails back. So end user asking me, why this can happened. Because it quite a number this problem occurs. this is cases for just one unit GA.

Thank you... I found the problem. The fan in the ventilation system wasn't working. I replaced it and the problem was solved.

what do youm mean KGEORGE.. What are the problems actually?