Hello everybody..

We are just starting dialysis center in our hospital.can anybody compare the machine between bbraun and fresenius which one is best.and if there is any other machine which will be good and cheap in price.
thanks in advance

"Good" and "cheap in price" are sometimes mutually exclusive!

Anyway ... what may be more important is:- how good is the local tech support in each case?

hmm you are right Geoff .thanks for your comments.
but now i have to choose between bbraun and fresenius .i have catelogues of two companies.and i am bit confused.

Hi we support the current 14 machines in house.
The best way by far is to issue a questionairre to your chosen few (we have to do it via tender here) then compare the scores and do a quick trial of both.
Make sure everyone you need to have an input is involved (ebme, nurses, clinicians etc)
And weight the scores so you can get a logical answer to each.

List the features that you require and then see who can provide them, here the support for fresenius is extremely bad, and this is coming from someone who once worked for fresenius. Are you including an RO along with the purchase, from my experience the best RO available is DWA. Gambro can offer you both machines and an RO something to consider.

Thanks porter for ur comments
yes RO will be included.I will check for Gambro system.i received the same comments about fresenius from some nurses here.

You should pay close attention to what the nurses are saying (and what their preferences are) ... after all, they will be the ones who will be using the equipment.

Neil's point is a good one, and should be stressed:- you need to get the water treatment side of things properly engineered. And if you already have all that in place, take the opportunity to review (and, if need be, improve) it. A decent company should be able to offer a complete package (water treatment, as well as the dialysis machines themselves).

I spent 2 hours last night hunting down the Fresenius engineer to correct faults in 3 machines, would do it myself but for the fact that it is contracted.

Why not consider doing what I used to like to do:- amend (re-write) the contracts so I (and/or my blokes) responded to "1st.Line" jobs ourselves?

It was cheaper that way, and the users were better served. In short, we did the "call-outs" and the service providers (local agents) did the scheduled PM's. It had the additional benefit of ensuring that the biomeds remained engaged with the kit (rather than just forgetting about it because "it's on contract").

All our kit which was on contract ended up like that (lab, x-ray, ultrasound, dialysis and what-have-you).

Geoff, if you knew half the problems we have had since the new contract began and fresenius installed their machines, you would not lift a finger to help them. So many broken promises, incomplete deliveries, the list is endless.

Geoff, sorry to say this but the age you come from it was possible to service equipment, now you need a laptop just to enter the service mode.

Point taken, Neil; but you don't need a laptop to tighten a loose control knob, or reset a breaker (for example). In other words, one of your guys should always "go and have a look" (that is, respond in the first instance).

But anyway, if I were writing the contract, the laptop, and the access code(s) would be part of the deal!

Review each companies PPq and then hold the commitments, also if you are aware of the issues then pre meetings or contract reviews are in order. I would say go to gambro as they have always Had the edge but this was a few years ago.

thanks electric...

Hello everybody !
Please accept an opinion as a new one here (this is my first post on this forum) I live in Romania (70 % is Fresenius & "satellites" on dialysis market of my country), I hear many times (doctors, nurses, technicians) if you make a new acquisition is better to chose the "majority" . Choose the company well top representative in your country or in your area. The advantage could come for sure.
Other advice (I work 2 years in a Diaverum mixed dialysis clinic 20 units HD AK96 Gambro and 18 -old fashion - 4008S Fresenius units with Culligan RO) choose only one company for all HD & RO
I read a post (Neil Porter) who complain about FMC Service on Jeddah Saudi Arabia, I'd like to tell that 2015 - 2017 it will be one of the big developer of FMC in area (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar) info is from inside (I was working 14 years in the past on FMC Romania, I know better the responsible manager of this project)
At last, but very important in my opinion, please considered a long time price not only the starting price (it's well known that Fresenius devices have a low defect rate compares Bbraun)
PS. I look always on "Recruitment issues" on this forum, if any choose Fresenius for all, I'd like to work a few years on UAE or Saudi A.(UK not excluded)

Slightly off topic:- like you Florian, Neil has long experience with dialysis equipment. He also has been out in the Desert Kingdom for ... er, a while. "Out there", regardless of the quality (or even the policies) of the OEM, the "local agent" calls the shots, and really do "make or break" the customers' experience - especially when it comes to "after-sales service".

Otherwise, your comments are sound; especially the one about using the same source for both the water treatment gear and the dialysis machines themselves.

I agree too that, for critical equipment like this, you would need to have a very good reason not to go for the Number One in the country you're in. To be honest, I'm not sure who that would be these days in the U.A.E.*

* See the OP.