EBME Forums Forums Management Medical Equipment Management "Warning" - Managed Equipment Services (MES)

MES-Managed equipment service, Part of another privatization process in the NHS. we can see there are lot of loop holes and issues in the system. We have to very careful before put our / patients life in trouble. I have 2 dozens of questions in my mind, few of them as follows.

1. How they are going to manage the multi vendor equipment (We know few companies not supporting us and every day we heard this company bought by that company, we are in migration process...blah blah).
2. What is the maximum and minimum turn around time for first call/ repair time.
3. What are the action / penalty for not keeping the minimum / maximum turn around times?
4. How sure to deliver the same model of equipment to user if swap the equipment for repair under MES.
5. What is the turn around time for endoscopes repair?
6. Is there any provision for providing replacement endoscopes if endoscopes send away for repair by MES provider?
7. How many times they will replace the machine in the 30 years time (Every 5 years/7 years/ 10 years.. who is right to chose the equipment or S / G / P company try to bring all their manufactured equipment to the hospital over the 10 to 30 years time if S / G /P managing MES).
8. How many times they go for the price review in the contractual period with NHS based on the inflation / deflation rate / increase fuel charge/ increase national wage rate/ increase cost of living... blah..blah.
9. Who is doing the first line maintenance (Then what for this MES program).
10. How the MES process align with Hospital risk management/equipment library/ISO.....blah blah process.
11. What is the uptime / down time indicator for the MES service?
12. What is the indicator for whole MES service?
13. How many % deductions from the contract amount if the quality of service failed/part of the service failed? What are the indicators for this?
14. What is the management system they are going to use for the service and how it is align with trust management policy (Management system- TQM / Benchmarking/ six sigma…..)
15. Who is managing the MES service from the trust side (again to create new department with a manager, technician, department secretary…..)
16. Who will provide the equipment training to users …How many proactive training programs in a year? Is there any additional cost for training? Is there any penalty for training failure….
17. How MES manage the radiology / imaging /laboratory equipment services. Who is responsible for QA and radiation protection for radiology /imaging equipment?
18. How MES responsible for lab equipment if equipment under reagent rental contract.
19. How many engineers are prepared to work for MES under Tuped.

End result, privatization….our tax money…..BACS payment to the fat people’s pocket…… They will tell you the profit % for stake holders in last financial year…. ….

All topics to be discussed and clarified before signing, by the sound of it! Surely Trusts don’t just stagger blindly into these agreements, do they?

tha_ans

These companies don't just come in and take the business, they are invited via OJEU adverts and are supplied with a Specification which the Trust writes. If a Trust is shafted it is because the spec allows them to. PaSA recommended a period of 6 to 12 months to get the spec right and advises against cutting corners.

All you questions should be dealt with at spec level i.e. what does the Trust expect not what can the MES supplier offer.

Final post tender negiotiations occur to fine tune the final contract etc. Again the Trust is in control, if they are not happy don't sign the contract.

Having worked for both a private company and the NHS for many a year! I have looked at it from both sides, doe's the NHS achieve anything from private contracts? in some cases yes but in alot not! At the end of the day if a finance dept can prove a saving on paper? and I'm sure people know how that one works then they will do what they want when they want!! as usual they will will fail to read the fine print first.

For a low value service contract maybe, but a multi million pound MES/MSV/MVS contract usually involves legal representation from both sides and lots of post tender negiotiation.

If you think I am making it up, then attend one of the NHS Confederation Future Healthcare Network meetings to get a taste of the amount of work that is involved by both sides. The contact at NHS Confederation is a nice lady by the name of Kay Rulton.

Hai bioman:

yes i agree...we know couple of hospital equipment maintanance services running under MES program with multi million pounds .. Any idea How they are running the show?

fascinating thread.... I'm actually sorry I havn't been visiting the forums regularly of late.

What I can say is this, rather explore MES as a possible option than write it off as a threat.

There is a reason why most large private and corporate companies in the open market sub all required services to MES. They are out there to make money and if MES saves them money, it means greater top & bottom line for them. I would have thought the agenda of change in the NHS would have made all NHS Equipment and EBME / Med Phys managers aspire to explore this avenue as a valid option.

The feeling I get while reading this thread is that most of you expresses something of apprehension to these changes rather than interest in exploring the possibilities of a well managed MES system and how it may be able to benefit your departments.

Most of the questions raised here are valid if not slightly obtuous in some cases, but they are all answerable if you investigate the market place starting with perhaps the latest MES tender awarded on OJEU. The specification of which was so well written that it answers 100% of all your questions, including how to manage penalties. I'm sure the equipment manager at Salford Hope will be more than happy to share his specification and thoughts with all of you.

Jasper

Yes, but it took 5 years to get there with the loss of nearly all the orignal Medical Physics staff, with over a hundred years experience and skills, except for 3 out of about 15. I think that's the concern many have - what happens to the original TUPE'd staff.

I believe the in-house Medical Physics service is now in the process of being built-up again isn't it? I've also heard that some clinical departments have taken on the responsibility of providing their own technical support. Is this not the case? No more "one-stop shop" as was the original intention in 2001 - what happened to that tender specification?

If subsequent tenders and handing-off to different MES providers are driving costs down I'd like to know where the savings are being made - I suspect the only way prices come down is by outsourcing less and less activities and bringing the services back in-house at each subsequent tender. As appears to be the case at Salford - is it not?

I assume you work for ITAL TBS (GB) tbs_user.

I actually use the outside MES as an incentive not a threat. I feel if an inhouse ebme department is operating efficiently and productively, the MES would not stand a chance of competing. They have to make a profit and ebme departments only in theory have to break even, hence If we provide a like for like service how can they compete, I say with difficulty.

So when an outsourced MES loses the contract, or hands it on, does this mean they are costly and inefficient?