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#13983 04/03/04 12:46 AM
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Hero
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Richard,
You are well informed. Yes, the armed forces biomeds do the same job to the same standard, with the same training and same test equipment.

They are not all product specific trained on all products (or were not when I trained) but are qualified and capable. (I would say that)

The average Hospital has 700 - 1000 different models of medical equipment. Even with an infinite budget we would not be able to train on all devices, so we must make decisions based on which equipment carries the hifghest risk to enable us to make decisions on how to spend our training funds wisely. I agree that the NHS needs to invest in training, but we also need to advise on how that money is best spent.


Be Proactive and reactive.
#13984 06/03/04 12:40 PM
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Super Hero
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H'mmm....

I wonder how Mike Capuano and Steve Koritko got away with it in Canada? Has anybody read their paper?

==============
Long Live Low Life


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
#13985 07/03/04 12:03 PM
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Sage
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Quote:
As long as one keeps ones superiors informed of ones shortfalls in the schedule’s then ones gluteus should be well and truly covered
What one was suggesting was if the schedule cannot be met due to time/staff shortage then you must let your superiors know in writing...it is then up to them to address the situation i.e. more staff,maintenence contracts etc. that way you can carry on with YOUR days work.
As grandpa Louis once told me "You can only do a days work ".

L3 wink


No trees were harmed in the posting of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
كيف الآن يحمّر البقرة
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Super Hero
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Risk assessment is the Way! (...you NHS blokes are being given all this wisdom for free and you don't even know it!).


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
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Adept
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At the risk of sounding like a sad version of a cracked Des O'Connor LP, I have to agree with Geoff that a Risk based system represents in my view the best way forward in the current climate of healthcare provision.
But don't take my word for it. THis has been presented at several forums in the UK. and has been proposed to national benchmarking as best practice by the southern group.

This system has been endorsed by our Risk Committee on behalf of the Trust and has been in use for 3 years now

Further info from
alan/mainstone@poole-tr.swest.nhs.uk
paul.horn@nhs.net

#13988 10/04/04 12:40 PM
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From your posting above John:

Quote:
The average Hospital has 700 - 1000 different models of medical equipment. Even with an infinite budget we would not be able to train on all devices, so we must make decisions based on which equipment carries the hifghest risk to enable us to make decisions on how to spend our training funds wisely. I agree that the NHS needs to invest in training, but we also need to advise on how that money is best spent.
You seem to miss the points I'm getting at John; the irreducible costs involved in purchasing a service manual, buying the spare parts to carry out the repair, and carrying out the repair using a qualified technician following the manufacturers recommended test procedures. This associated with the requirement that the majority of medical equipment requires servicing or at least inspection and functional verification on a regular basis.

Where these costs are insignificant compared to the risks associated with failing to service a range of devices adequately then in-house servicing is cost-effective. Otherwise overall cheaper alternative means have to be found: third-party maintenance, manufacturer, i.e. transferring the risk, or not at all. I would hope that the not at all is not an option considered unless the equipment is disposable or presents very minimal risk to all concerned if it fails.

Perhaps the acquisition of manuals, training, and following manufacturers recommendations seems expensive to some because they compare the costs of servicing to manufacturers recommendations to not servicing equipment at all. Is this the "risk-element in the equation"?

Laying-on of hands, rather than following schematics, etc, etc and fashioning spares from thin-air is not in most technicians capabilities. The other extreme (in terms of cost) of extensive manufacturers training is another issue but at least manuals allow for qualified engineering technicians performing service or repairing equipment without manufacturers training.

That's why each manual usually specifies what should be done, the recommended spares and the test equipment required. It seems, to me, that the minimum we should be doing if we are servicing equipment is to follow recommendations in a service manual or gather enough information from the manufacturer to make a decision as to whether servicing in-house is feasible at all.

If departments cannot afford a manual for each piece of equipment, or the majority of it, the correct spares and the test equipment to service/repair the equipment then perhaps servicing of those devices concerned should not be attempted in-house.

That is why I suggest that the decision to service, in-house or not, based on the information available is made as early as possible (possibly before purchase). A way to do this is to gather information from the manufacturer at, or prior, to purchase. Whichever way one chooses to get the equipment serviced or repaired it will clearly cost money.

The decision of which approach to take when assessing risk should be contatined within the limits of the "compromise" associated with the maximum acceptable risk considered and the "ideal" situation that reduces the risk to an absolute minimum.

Do you have a servicing policy or in-house recommendations for each piece of equipment that you don't have a service manual or manufacturers servicing recommendations John? If not who decides on what's adequate, if they're not manufacturer trained, you don't have a manual or servicing procedures and there's no in-house test schedule? How can you assess or perform calibration of clinical diagnostic equipment without the basic information? Have you evaluated the risks associated for each device in this case?

#13989 22/05/04 11:03 AM
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My view is that it the Government can find the money to provide adequate services to the military support services RE: following manufacturers guidelines then it should stump-up the funds to provide it to the NHS support services. Perhaps it is because of our managers attitudes, in the past, of "make do and mend" and "don't rock the boat" that this situation has developed. As for the research paper the thread started on - perhaps we are not comparing like services to like services; are the authors involved in the provision of services to private medicine? - cost may be the issue here - weighing up acceptable risk of not providing manufacturers recommended servicing may not be the issue; it may be purely financial i.e. saving money by providing a higher-risk, non manufacturer ecommended, absolute minimum acceptable quality approach. High Quality costs. Quality is what the customer wants; I am a customer, what I want is high quality and if I'm prepared to pay for it for the forces I sure as hell want to pay for it for the NHS for my own benefit and not to private concerns for profit.

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Super Hero
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Risk assessment is the Way! The Golden Solution, even. For those of you who may have missed it, this topic is another of the drums I like to bang. Any more words of wisdom to add to this thread, I wonder? smile


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
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Super Hero
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We have to deal with the reality of the situation (or the “real world NHS”, as I’ve heard it called). So, we are in broad agreement (I hope, anyway) that the way to deliver the service we’re meant to be providing is through a process of properly conducted preventive maintenance (which includes electrical safety testing, by the way). wink

Trouble is that hospitals don’t have the resources they need to do this in anything like a comprehensive manner. We would like to PM everything, but don’t have the time. The sensible response has to be to place your resources where they are most needed, by carrying out PM according to priority (or, put another way, urgency of need).

How do we arrive at a figure for priority? By fiddling about with risk criteria factors, and this is where the fun really begins. Everything's critical or nothing's that critical. It all depends on your point of view.

I’m interested in how you trigger your PM. How do you decide when it’s due, and what rationale do you use? Is the Risk-Based model catching on at all in the UK? smile


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
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Super Hero
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Super Hero
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... assuming, that is, that you're actually doing PM! smile


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
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