EBME Forums Forums Management Professional Issues Agenda For Change Agenda for change. Status report on Profiles

Unfortunately it is difficult to cogently argue for R&R premia when there seems to be no retention problem (at least where I work there isn't).

That may change if staff working in your department are compromised by AfC and are offered less than the market value of technicians in hospitals located around the area where you work; doing the same, or a very similar job. Market forces dictates that if this happens individuals will probably be forced to look elsewhere if they want to remain in EBME long-term; even if they have pay-protection for 5, 6 or 7 years or however your management interprets the AfC documentation.

The qualification, skills, responsibilities and experience requirments placed upon us by the new AfC job profiles may ensure that all you are able to employ, if you do lose skilled staff, is basic grade technicians (on a commensurate salary) - this may actually make the "working-grade" skills shortage in EBME worse, before it gets better, in the medium term. That is until the new "WunderKinder" with Degrees in equipment maintenance come through the system to replace the "UnterMensch" that have been sidelined.

Hopefully individuals involved with AfC will see that if they compromise the majority of staff in disciplines such as ours then things could get much worse than they are now - there may be no-one to work with the newbies when they come into the job after all that Healthcare Scientist training - they might just find themselves managing contracts, not people.

I think r&r is a big issue, in the northwest we tend to cover the full range of equipment in house and when a trained tech leaves or we have a vacancy there just arent the proper candidates out there to come in and start work without a hell of a lot of training taking place again.
Maybe if the working grade was sufficient enough fully trained staff wouldnt be tempted away.

R&R is not a solution for people in a similar position to mine - I can't live from day to day on vague promises. What happens after R&R? The implication is that if R&R is applied then you have been assimilated into a grade on a lower equivalent salary than you are currently on. I don't believe that any Trust is going to use R&R place us on a higher equivalent grade and enhance pay.

AfC grades and salaries will be based upon job-role; employers will pitch the job-role and then decide if you meet the new criteria - if not then you will be placed on a lower equivalent grade for the role you have and a salary that's commensurate with this. The employer then decides whether the R&R premium is appropriate. Effectively the employer has the scope to retain your skills or not by influencing your job role and potential earnings - the biggest lever on whether an individual stays or leaves - you have the period of the R&R premium (if it is applied) to decide your own future.

So I disagree with you KM: I can't believe that R&R is such a problem in the North West since all the managers I know or I've known have said that they're either not prepared, or not in a position, to put any money where their mouth is to prevent individuals from leaving. If it has been a genuine problem then something would have been done about it a long time ago. I can only conclude that the indifferent attitude of managers in EBME and HR in the NHS is to be prepared to let you or I go, if we threaten to leave, and bring in individuals with no, or very little, experience to keep the "body" count up.

There is no reason to doubt that management will allow the same thing to happen come AfC. In my opinion, going off past form, R&R will probably only exist for those "non-key" staff that must not be allowed to leave in the short to medium term after AfC is implemented. If AfC does "hit us hard" then this will avoid collapse of the system entirely - but managers will certainly be prepared to wave goodbye to us when they're ready to take on lower grades and cut the wage-bill I reckon. For "key staff" R&R will not be an issue: they will be assimilated onto the appropriate grades and probably be better off than before if AfC goes like previous national restructures.

The only good thing about AfC, KSF and NOS is that these frameworks and standards might prevent managers from employing lesser-able, lesser qualified, individuals at higher grades and salaries after quality staff leave. Preventing what has effectively been "patching-up" of an underlying problem for years - being prepared to pay more than the market price for lesser skilled replacements whilst undervaluing the higher skilled of us that have had to leave. The rewards system in the NHS has always been arse-about-face if you ask me.

I've just read a Q&A circular on the AfC website, produced by the DOH, that confirms there will be no cost of living pay awards to anyone receiving R&R premium after 12 months - so much for the 6 years pay protection offered by my employer - they didn't mention this in the letter . I guess it’s actually possible that anyone remaining employed on R&R for the protection period could eventually “pay” the difference between their previous wage and their new salary, plus R&R premium, back in the cost of living increases they'd no longer be entitled to. R&R won't cost the NHS as much as I thought it would in the short to medium term. There's not much of an incentive to stick around, for long, in this case - more pay modernisation than recruitment and retention I think.

Also the answers given in the Q&As suggest that people should have their up to date job descriptions ready because AfC will probably be implemented early - there is obviously a lot of pressure on HR, nationally, to implement AfC as soon as the pilot sites have finished evaluations - well before the October 2004 deadline. I suggest to you all that you get talking to your managers before you're steam-rolled down the AfC path well before you're expecting it.

Coincidentally the recent reorganisation ("absolutely and categorically not-related to AfC" you understand ) where I work has already "slotted" the "key-staff" into place - at least I now have a better idea who will probably benefit by AfC and who's likely to come off worse in the AfC “pay modernisation”. I wondered why a Physicist from outside our Trust had been called in to help sort it out - too much fuss for an internal departmental reorganisation. Perhaps I am way off the mark but if I were really cynical I could say I’m suspicious that our reorganisation has been a convenient method of aligning roles prior to AfC - a done deal so to speak - I guess I'd better start looking harder for alternative employment. Is it just me or does anybody else get that sinking feeling – like you’ve been here before?

Richard, try reading the posts before diving in with your negative waffle. The way we read it KM agrees that R&R is a big issue, he then go's on to say that in the North West Biomeds (or whatever) cover the majority of the equipment, it is hard to retain staff and that if R&R where available retention of staff would improve.come on Richard, ONLY A FOOL WOULD DISAGREE. Richard as a Biomed from the North West I was tempted away by a better offer, I downed tools and left. I was fully trained and an MSc (B.Eng) Graduate with 7 years NHS biomedical experience so I feel I can comment. One thing is for sure Richard; if I had been offered an R&R top up I might still be in the North West. The NHS would still be benefiting from all the costly courses they sent me on.

Enjoy your day

EH

With regard to R&R payments, they are two types, short term and long term. I believe that if you are receiving the long term R&R payment then it is increased along with any pay awards and counts towards your pensionable salary.
Medical electronics is one group that will receive the long term R&R. I hope I am correct in what I am saying but it is what I have read in the DOH document.

The DOH publication "Agenda for Change" "Proposed Agreement" dated March 2003 gives specific information on R&R payments. Long term R&R (as payable to medical electronics) will be increased by 3.25% in April 2004 and April 2005. Thereafter it is up to local or national agreement.!

It's very difficult to sort out exactly how the R&R payment will affect us. My understanding from what I've read is that because it has been identified nationally it's definitely a long term arrangement and will count as "real" salary (pension etc), it will be upgraded by the agreed percentage increase each year - BUT - the value of the award has been left to individual Trusts, "in consultation with other local NHS employers" and there's no guarantee as to how long we will receive it for. I think the phrase was "dependent on market forces".

It looks as though Trusts can end the payment when the initial 3 year national pay deal has run its course. So if you work down the road from the LG factory in Wales or the National Semiconductor plant which closed last year, then the "excess capacity" of electronics technicians will probably mean that the local NHS can get away with paying less than the national average - they certainly wont need an R&R payment !

EH, thank you for your views; of course you could have just said that you disagree - that's all that I said to KM but if you prefer to get personal and feel strongly enough about it to reply for KM then bring it on.

As for your qualifications, etc, etc, I don't believe that was part of mine or KM's last post - must be something that you wanted to get off your chest after reading my post from a while back.

Yes I am negative but it was in the context of relaying a Q&A sheet I read last night and how that made me feel with regard to events where I work at the moment. Thanks for sticking your nose in and making it personal - what's the beef? Go and stick your head in the sand.