EBME Forums Forums Management Professional Issues Agenda For Change AfC and VRCT

"The attitude off some of you guys is unbelievable having the front to suggest in a public forum that you can just come into this job and be left to it "

I dont think anyone is saying that or even thinking that Richard. I think what is being said is that experience counts for more than paper qualifications and registration should not just be on a time served basis with no indication of profiency.

Richard,

I think you have truly grabbed the wrong end of the stick.

My comment on Corgi registration is that a gas fitter must be registered to work on gas.

There is nothing to stop a private individual from purchasing a fire and doing it himself.
This is out of control of CORGI.
Hopefully common sense will prevail.

An organisation such as VRCT can only assess paper qualifications. My service manager and team leader and other team members are in a position to assess my technical competence, as they are able to see what I am doing.

I am all for registration and support the engineering council in their desire to have all engineers registered.

What does this statement mean then?

So it's all right for you to suggest that Graduates would come in and just be left to it without knowing one end of a screwdriver to the other but not for me to suggest that a time-served fitter should not come into the job on the working grade and be left to it. There is a bit of inverted snobbery in action here I think.

In both cases they would need the relevant experience and relevent on the job training under supervison. S*d the paper qualifications - once you have the minimum required then s*d it but I do know of clinical staff that could run rings around some technicians because their understanding of text-book Physics and Electronics is actually at a higher level than the so-called 'experts'.

How can we deal with techncial aspects of the job without a credible level of education? How can we be taken seriously by other Professionals without a defined body of knowledge and have met competences to 'practice'? How are you going to move around between jobs and for promotion if you don't want to develop? It's for our own good.

Ahh, so you are in fact working under supervision then. If state registration is necessary for working unsupervised then perhaps the paper will have more value. There's requirements for relevant experience and relevant training that Mr Eagle and yourself seem particularly concerned about earlier-on - you would have had to produce paper for your IEng registration and also been assessed by a body if you were apprenticed - what's the difference - same sort of paper different job requirements to meet. Why did you bother with IEng registration?

Col,

Yes there is the Gas supplier can disconnect you if the work is substandard and even if it isn't only a fool would be stupid enough to risk others in the family without getting an expert to check it for leaks at least - Ok if you want to take yourself down but not others with you - see what I'm getting at?

Richard,

Straight from the IPEM VRCT website.

An individual who is working unsupervised takes responsibility for the actions that they perform whilst undertaking the duties of their post. In this context working unsupervised does not refer to an individual’s line management structure.

HA HA so I’m not.

On the fire aspect 'how would they know’? There is nothing to stop them actually fitting it. A qualified CORGI engineer would require access to see the installation, if the individual is not prepared to pay for installation, they will certainly not pay for an inspection, especially if they are implicated in shoddy work.
This is my whole point of technical competence. It is down to the integrity of the individual and those in a position to observe their work.

PS before you go off on one, my stuff was installed by and inspected annually by a registered CORGI engineer.

Masterbuild good idea, but voluntary. Good builders have far too much work in hand to worry about the requirements of such a body.

On starting this role, I was supervised and have been sent on many training courses and I am appreciative of the commitment my employer has shown to my training. There is no way I approached this job with a rolling up of the sleeves and a ‘get out of the way boy’s I’ll show you how it’s done attitude.

Robert, you surprise me, things are indeed not always as they seem.

Once again you make most valid and reflected points but presented in such a manner as to lead me to suspect that you need to drink more beer !

Darren

"So it's all right for you to suggest that Graduates would come in and just be left to it without knowing one end of a screwdriver to the other but not for me to suggest that a time-served fitter should not come into the job on the working grade and be left to it. There is a bit of inverted snobbery in action here I think."

Richard I was answering the point that future HPC
entry would require a degree. By not being able to register you would not be eligble for promotion to senior posts. This would mean that people with on the job experience but without the correct paper qualification( which were perfectly adequate when I started this job and was infact sent to college to obtain) would not be able to obtain promotion whilst only those with the correct paper qualifications(and possibly less experience) would be able to fill these posts.
Maybe I am being unfair on graduates because they are not all without skills but certainly in Glasgow more and more departments are regarding paper qualifications over experience.

DM,

Do you mean Richard? Concentrate please - I know the small writing can be a little difficult but you need to keep up!

Some Medical Engineering Departments already have minimum entry qualifications.

My department requires at the very least an ONC for a MTO3 and a HNC for a MTO4.

Academic qualifications are required for all professional jobs; dental technicians, medical physics, audiologist technicians, to name a few.

Medical Engineers also have the potential to affect the well being of patients; therefore, as such, the same academic requirements and registration are not only inevitable but essential.

Shipman was allowed to commit his hideous crimes because there was a lack of procedures, nothing to do with registration.

I hope none of the family of his victims read your flippant comment.

Doogie,

It is not a flippant comment at all. Very serious and emphasises my point.
VRCT will not ensure that all registrants perform their duties to the highest of professional standards. All it means is that at some stage, often very early in their career, the registrant has met the paper criteria for registration.
Like all professional bodies such as HPC the requirements are met on finishing training. A degree plus HPC registration means an organisation can employ you at the set grade. If you are found guilty of professional misconduct – often as a result of a court case. They will remove you from their register hence you are unable to work as the employer can check to see if you are registered.

As you rightly say your (and my) trust set the requirements for technical qualifications for the posts.