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#16600 14/09/04 3:12 PM
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Topper,

I'm not attacking individuals who come into this job from outside the NHS and who contribute as much as anyone else to it once they've picked up the experience and specific skills - it's just my opinion that employing them hasn't helped to develop formal training and professional development in NHS engineering departments.

I've been trying to get over why I think this 'profession' has not developed in the way that 'professions', like your last employment in the forces, was allowed to. No 'profession' can develop by relying on the integrity and professionalism of individuals when they enter it unless they are formally assessed for competence to nationally set standards, for example, and that the requirements of regulation are being met by those individuals. This should apply to us all.

Did you have to achieve standards, relevent to your last employment, before you were allowed to get on with it considered fully qualified? - if so then why should you not have sets of standards applied to this job?

You and your colleagues came into this job, day-one, and were able to perform all the tasks required straight away? I think not. It will have taken time to learn the non-engineering and the specifically clinically biased aspects of the job.

I've not actually commented on the complexity of the job with regard to engineering - I think I've said that the engineering basics of engineers coming from outside the NHS are not in question - these are relatively easily proven based on records and past performance. It's the other aspects that you can't possibly have been aware of before you started picking them up and gaining experience hands-on. Someone will have demonstrated, trained or educated you in these aspects initially and you will have picked up the skills over time. The experience on the job that is referred to in the requirements for VRCT.

However professional the attitude you still have to gain specific knowledge and experience. The job isn't just about fixing things - competences have to be there for the range of tasks or duties that an individual may provide as part of the job - not just repairing simple electronics for example - Radiotherapy, Diagnostic Ultrasound, Diagnostic Imaging, Renal, Anaesthetics - surely you cannot be competent in all of these, knowing all the regulations and safety aspects, from day one? Trainees and new starters could move into any of these areas so they need to be assessed in a range of areas.

From yours, Eagles and Cols postings I am beginning to confirm my initial impression that it's because you think your knowledge, experience, etc, carried over from your previous employment is more than adequate to meet all the requirements of VRCT, whatever - perhaps you think it was even before you even started this job. That's where my impression of a 'superior attitude' comes from.

Quote:
Somebody recognizes what we have to offer.
Don't discount the possibility that you and your colleagues from the forces were seen as the best technically trained candidates around at the time, given demand, to fill vacant posts. Companies say they like individuals from the forces because they're used to doing as they were told without question - that's certainly the view of the after sales service Director of a private company I worked for briefly. So it's not necessarily because you were the best Medical Engineers.

#16601 14/09/04 3:24 PM
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Eagle,

Quote:
don't know though, some of these new nebulisers are nearly as complex as the radio/radar and imaging systems on the Harriers!
There you go again - falling back on irrelevent experience. If the skills are so good then what are you doing as a working grade technician in EBME/Medical Physics carrying out work that you consider is worthless/trivial in comparison.

Nebulisers actually save lives and can be as important to a poor old dear with Emphysema as any 'killing-machine' is in my book - that's the difference in attitude between professionals and someone grasping to win an argument. There's not much requirement for Harrier repairs in ICU is there? BobbyP is correct you are pretty low in my opinion Eagle.

Quote:
From yours, Eagles and Cols postings I am beginning to confirm my initial impression that it's because you think your knowledge, experience, etc, carried over from your previous employment is more than adequate to meet all the requirements of VRCT, whatever - perhaps you think it was even before you even started this job. That's where my impression of a 'superior attitude' comes from.
I am now certain of it.

#16602 14/09/04 3:29 PM
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Eagle,
Loose lips sink ships!

#16603 14/09/04 3:31 PM
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Mr Ling

Keep up the good work.

#16604 14/09/04 3:31 PM
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Careless Techs cost lives.

#16605 14/09/04 3:32 PM
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Mr R J Ling

You get my vote!

Techman

#16606 14/09/04 3:50 PM
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"Careless Techs cost Lives"

I agree, however by using this comment i can only assume you think we are not worthy, no matter what.
Ciao..

#16607 14/09/04 3:59 PM
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Topper,

Go on - take that baton and run! Just watch out for BoppyP's trailing leg, he has a habit of trying to trip you up!

#16608 14/09/04 4:09 PM
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Hmmm - seem to be straying a bit gents....

Back on topic please.

#16609 14/09/04 4:24 PM
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Bye Topper,

Quote:
I agree, however by using this comment i can only assume you think we are not worthy, no matter what.
Ciao..
Actually it was a play on words - the 'Tech' in question was 'generic' not forces but whatever association you put with it is fine by me.

To put the record straight for all you ex-forces Biomeds out there, with genuine biomed experience that some forces interlopers are trying to devalue on your behalf, I think that the forces provides biomeds with a lot of relevent manufacturters biomed training and experience. Unfortunately the level of qualifications required lets some of them down a bit when it comes to VRCT I think.

This experience is of course relevent and should be counted towards VRCT and professional registration in my opinion (but thankfully assessment is nothing to do with me) I have met a few biomeds from the army and RAF, in particular, and I would be happy to work with anyone that knows their stuff.

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