EBME Forums Forums Management Professional Issues Agenda For Change Voluntary Register ?

PACE,IPEM,VRCT,IIE,HEFMA,ART etc etc

Maybe all these abbreviated organisations, when put together, could form the anagram "whose regulating who"

Surely what is needed is to ask of the people fulfilling the job what is required.

This will take time, cover many topics and involve lots of variances.

If at the end there is some common threads these need to be developed.

People within this field, both NHS and MSV, and including stand alone companies should be the ones providing the scope for any future developments of how we regulate the "profession".

This website does more to promote communication on this subject than any other combined collection from other sources I know of.

Before registration is enforced upon us, with standards and levels the majority of people working in this game have been unable to comment on, surely what is needed is an open, frank out pouring of ideas that "should" give an idea of the vast diversity of what we do.

Don't pidgeon hole, don't try and make people, and organisations, fit into a pre-determined model.

Welcome difference and diversity, encourage the open sharing of what we do.

When everything is then reviewed we could possibly try and come up with solutions to subjects such as names, job titles, training requirements, professional standards, educational levels etc etc.

I am registered with VRCT, have been for a number of years, all our staff eligible are too.

Why, I really don't know...seemed like a good thing to do at the time.

As can be seen from the various postings and numerous posts, there is still a lot to be discussed.

If that is the case, are we at the right time to have registration, let alone voluntary registration.

Maybe it needs to go back to the drawing board, maybe the organisations driving this need to ask the question "Are we doing this for the right reasons, at the right time and targetting the correct individuals/departments?"

Best anagram i could find on google was: 'I am imperfective, cheap rat.

A.M

Not who is regulating who - who is regulating full-stop. The HPC regulates Healthcare Professionals working in protected job-roles to protect us all according to the legislation for regualted Healthcare professionals and the HPC. The employer ensures regulation can be applied to the workforce by employing individuals with protected job-titles in particular roles. This forces all employers to get involved with nationally recommended training schemes if they wish to appoint non-registered staff or employ staff that are already trained. The professionals are almost exclusively trained in the NHS to standards laid down by the HPC, professional institutions and employer to meet the requirements agreed upon. This has got to have benefits over the current system. It would be useful for me if someone could outline the disadvantages (other than cost and that it's aimed at "intellectuals") - there are lots of moans and groans from people but no real disadvantages are being put forward.

Personally I do not recognise PACE and neither does the HPC on this issue as far as I'm aware. IPEM, IIE and ART are the driving force for regulation through VRCT - the members of the workforce expressing a wish to be recognised within a profession and the DoH/NHS is already involved. Membership of an instution is not the issue either - it's independent of that. As far as I can tell; registration with Engineering UK (EC) at IEng, through the IIE, employed as a Technician in the NHS, employed in EBME/M.P. would not necessarily meet the same proposed standards as 'Clinical Technologist' registration, regulated through the employer, that may insist you are registered to work in a particular job-role in future i.e Clinical Technologist. IEng or EngTech registration would be of no lesser status just different since the core requirments for registration of an Engineer, for example, would possibly not meet those required by the HPC, NHS and the associated instutions involved in Healthcare for working as a fully qualified Clinical Technologist. We are not just engineers with basic engineering knowledge - we have other knowledge and skills in addition to this.

Guys, when are we going to get off this never-ending carousel and “cut to the chase”?

It would be useful for me if someone could outline the disadvantages (other than cost and that it's aimed at "intellectuals") - there are lots of moans and groans from people but no real disadvantages are being put forward.

Capable, contiencious Technicians, some with many years experience, holding ONC's and who commenced in post after the Aug 2001 not being eligible to join the VRCT through IPEM.
My position
MTO 3 Critical Care Technologist
ONC Engineer Electronics
Commenced in post Dec 2002
Do emergency on call, pat. transfers etc.
Previous experience: 13 Yrs RAF Avionics Technician.
As you can understand i have reservations about a registration scheme i am uneligable to join and to have my quality work/service overshadowed by supervision.
There are many others in a similar position.

You’re just the sort of bloke I’m thinking of in my tirades on this forum, Tony. An ex-RAF technician with an ONC should be good enough for any NHS hospital, in my humble opinion.

Come on, the “many others”, the rest of the silent majority – let’s be hearing from you!

Huw, how about a new topic heading? A place for the non-register hands-on types to “register” their objections to the register? After all, this is a democratic venue, is it not?

Topper,
under the rules you may not be eligable to join the VRCT yet but as it is only a voluntary register no-one is going to be overshaddowing you. When it becomes compusary you will have got on to it by showing your experience is equal to the required qualifications and bythen you will have done sufficient time in the exact field.
That is the point of this lead up time of the VRCT.
If they had suddenly implemented it then that would have been a problem...but they did not.
So no worries.
Robert

So then Geoff, seeing as we are using your benchmark today, rather than those established by the professional institutions and the requirements of the DoH, what other job-roles (with ONC minimum of course or does it just depend how much you like the individual on that day?) are good enough for any NHS hospital? An IT technician? Cable TV installer? Electrical draughtsperson? Panel Wirer?

I am not trying to demean these jobs - they have their merits and are as challenging as any in some ways but this is the problem you see - if you open entry onto responsible grades at MTO3 level for example to individuals with any previous experience as a Technician then you may as well accept anybody with an ONC who has a good interview on the day. Given high demand there will always be some manager that will employ anyone due to demand - bums on seats.

It took about 4 years and an HNC, with Whitley being applied rigorously, for me to achieve MTO3 with 2 years formal training and two more working on the bench while other hospitals were offering MTO4's to technicians with no formal training and equivalent experience down the road, in-house, because they were willing to pay because of demand.

I think it is ludicrous that someone, effectively with an ONC and no relevant experience on the job should expect to jump into grades (that others are willing to work towards achieving the standards set), without a good balance of relevant skills and academic achievement and what's most important without relevant experience on the job. It's about a balance I think qualifications, skills, and relevant experience.

Has Topper enrolled on an HNC to get himself in a position to be eligible for registration? If not why not? Perhaps because he wants the whole shooting match to conform to his needs. Perhaps because his employer is not obliged to give him support? They would be if they were regulated I think. Some people want to have it all for nothing I'm afraid. By the way I had a few years in the electronics industry before I moved into the NHS but I don't consider this particularly relevant seeing as I was involved in manufacturing test equipment and electronis used in switchgear and emergency power systems.

Perhaps we should take a different approach than regulation and employ anybody with an ONC at MTO1/2 and keep them there forever, working under supervision with no prospects or offer of advancement, with no requirement to train and accept any experience and only require a degree and 3 years relevant experience for MTO3, to be registered, plus a career path. How's that - Obviously a fairer system than the one we have at the moment?

Can’t help wondering why you didn’t just apply “down the road”, Richard. Why go through unnecessary grief, Mate?

But if I was hiring (a very unlikely scenario, I should point out), whether I liked the individual would score a great deal of points indeed (as long as he got through the “Biomed Boot Camp”, of course). I reckon I’m a pretty shrewd judge of character (and before you jump on that – yes, character does count). And yes, as a foundation qualification, ONC would be fine by me.

Just in case you’re wondering, I got my own HNC the hard way (ie, whilst serving in the army), but that was also a long time ago when an HNC was probably worth sweating for. But, I must admit that, like most others I should imagine, I cannot claim that I use anything like “HNC-level” brain cells every day (if at all). No, as I’ve said before, ONC is entirely adequate, in my opinion (and I got one of those when I was 18 years old, plus City and Guilds and all the rest that “came up with the rations” at Arborfield).

I don’t mean to slight NHS medical equipment departments, Richard. But take it from me (and if you can’t do that, ask Louis, Huw, Tony or any of the others who are working, or have worked, outside the cosy old UK), that you guys have a relatively easy time of it. When I go on my next overseas sojourn, I’ll give you the chance of coming along to see “how the other half live”. Can’t be fairer than that, eh? Fancy Nepal?

Anyway, enough now Richard. As I said earlier, we’re just going around in circles, and, personally, I really don’t give a hoot (polite word, that) about the whole registration issue, voluntary or otherwise. So I'll hang up my gloves and retire to my corner (from this topic, at least).