EBME Forums Forums Management Training APPENTICES.

Geoff,
I totally agree with your idea but have you tried getting money out of Trust boards? It is in our business plan to have some trainees to replace our mechanical engineers, as I posted above, but I will believe it when it happens.
Won't the compusary register with its implied training scheme force Trusts to provide all you say such as day and block release for non-registered techs. And the KSF will force people to keep their training and skills up to date.
This has an implication of more staff to cover the training time. Again I will believe it when I see it but at least the NHS is putting the theory down in words. All we have to do is to make sure it is implemented and have the facilities to do the training, and up to degree level!
Robert

The Northern NHS scheme for apprentices have a great model for training as far as breeding your own technicians, they attend college one day a week in order to obtain formal academic qualifications (HNC).

We then put them through seven generic training modules:Introduction to Cardiovascular Equipment,Physiological Monitoring & Infusion Equipment,Theatre and Surgical Equipment,Dental Equipment,Introduction to Anaesthetic & Theatre Equipment,Introduction to Diagnostic X-Ray System, Pathology Equipment. All this is then combined with specific manufacturers equipment training.

Great group of technicians. The coordinator of this scheme Eillen Bayles would be happy to discuss this scheme further at the Northern and Yorkshire NHS assesment centre.

That sounds more like it. Very encouraging, in fact. Any chance of coaxing Eileen to make a contribution on this site, Rob? Let’s spread the word and perhaps the idea could be taken up more broadly. May I suggest a new thread entitled “Breeding Your Own Techs”, or something similar?

What sort of time-scale are we thinking of for all that then, Rojo?

Rob,
what sort of formal qualifications are required before you take-on apprentices?
R....

Geoff,
Exactly..... What sort of timescales do the NHS run to? I think it will be many years if ever.
I think we need schemes like the northern apprenticeship one all over the country and no-one will set them up but us.
Robert

Trent RHA used to run a Medical Physics/Physiological Measurement ONC training course in the mid 70's for about 8 years before they effectively disbanded the regions.
Every year about 20 school leavers were enrolled on a supernumary basis.
We rotated in pairs through electronics,renal,EEG,ECG,RFU,Anaesthetics,radiation physics,mould room,instrument workshop.
We went to Richmond College in Sheffield 1.5 days a week for two years and at the end of the course the vast majority were offered jobs in their prefered specialty.
Many of us went on to do an HNC in either Electronic Engineering or Medical Physics/Physiological Measurement.
The students came from all over The Trent region including Sheffield,Derby,Leicester and Nottingham.
It was a great scheme which gave technicians a broad grounding in all aspects of technical work which I think is sadly lacking at the moment.

I know this is quite a long time for a response, but this is a message for KM.

I completed a medical engineering apprenticeship within my trust. I have been out of time for nearly 3 years now and are currently employed by the hospital in which I trained in.

The trust where I am based follows a regional apprenticeship scheme whaich looks at professions in engineering within a hospital environment.

An actual apprenticeship scheme has been put together for medical engineering and each candidate comes out with many qualifications.

HNC in electronics
ONC in electronics
Many city and guilds qualifications , too many to list!!
NVQ level 3 in medical engineering.

I found the apprenticeship brilliant and well worth every hour spent on log books and college work, when I look where I am now.

Senior technician and still only 23 years old!!

I hjave the apprenticeship scheme a lot to thank for. I just wish there was a lot more schemes available for others.

I havent viewed this topic for a while. But its good to see its generated many views. Basically we still havent moved on. After several meetings with local education service providers and various training bodies we couldnt find a way of setting up a suitable, affordable and operational(from the view of kids getting to training establishments easily on low wages) scheme.
Im still disheartened by the way the future of this "profession" to use a word is viewed in terms of general supply of suitable future staff to train. I know many will have different views to my own, but we dont need people with degrees etc to come in and be trained as apprentices only to leave when a post with more wonger comes along. I had hoped there where still young people out there that wanted to be engineers, technicians etc but Im told not. The opinion of one training body was that of a survey they carried out less than 2% of school leavers would consider an engineering trade of any sort. They all want to do nothing, be IT&M bods, be a nurse? midwife?? or go to uni and get more quals???. Anyway we'll keep on trying, hopefully we will get there in the end.
Either that or in 10 years time Medical Engineering Departments will be staffed by people who are all due to retire and are training junior techs with masters degrees in computer aided biotronics and need 2 days off a week to lecture in their chosen docturate.

I think we have to accept that these days those who are committed to doing science and engineering subjects, from school, are likely to be looking for a "professional career" and are more likely to study for degrees. Particularly as there is continual pressure to perform, more individuals are obtaining degrees than ever and some have the impression that the earning potential of jobs that require higher qualifications is also higher. This aside; more job applicants will eventually be degree educated than not if industry doesn't provide enough individuals with basic engineering training and vocational education and the NHS requires degree-educated individuals only.

I can't see the NHS employing technicians with further vocational qualifications and non-specific training as "Engineering Professionals" if other NHS professionals have to have specific training and higher qualifications. If they do then these people will not be employed as professionals with protected titles nor will they be attract people with skills that are in demand into the profession with decent salaries. I think generalisations that degree-educated individuals are not up to the job gets us nowhere. Especially when it is a fact that 25% of NHS employed maintenance technicians are likely to have a degree and 90% have higher qualifications (according to the recent poll on this site). Academic attainment is one statistic that is pretty cut and dry on paper.

This academic qualifications argument is a red-herring - the real argument should be about the entry-level requirements of those wishing to enter this "profession", whether that be with A-levels or C&GLI or ONC/OND/HNC/HND or equivalent plus experience, how long the training lasts, it's content and what degree, experience and skills you come out of it with. And of course what pay you get for the extra effort. I'm trying to put across a viewpoint based on what's happening (or is most likely to be the situation very soon) rather than what I think should happen.