EBME Forums Forums Management Professional Issues Registration VRCT Facts and fiction.

I am interested to read peoples opinions about this subject,which is part of my job as a clinical technologist training coordinator. I am also a tech who has worked in EBME for many years. For the past year or so I have been trying to find out if any Approved training centres exist for EBME technicians and have found no active ones.
I have also been perplexed about the NOS which are essentially NVQ based and the other side saying Degree. The fact that they are both NHS seemed odd. However next month there is a meeting of the Skills for health / Healthcare scientists, where this topic is being discussed. As far as I can make out the Vocational Degree course will be based on the NOS's.
What I have learnt over the past year is that the whole question of registration and the introduction of the vocational degrees will cause a major problem to employers trying to recruit and those in Ebme departments who do not meet the requirements. I attended a meeting in London to discuss this last year where these points were raised with an NHS representative and we were informed that the policy of registration was meant to be inclusive. It remains to be seen.
What is obvious to me is that too many interested groups are involved and not many of them realise is what a problem they are creating.

Paul,

I was talking about a £31k a year technician who may wish change careers to train as a Clinical Scientist - not physics graduate new-entrants. Apologies for not making that clear.

Hi Greg,

I think you've hit the nail on the head - it seems that all these organisations want a stake, or partnership in what's going on, but none of them seem to be communicating effectively.

Dear Colleagues,

I think that I'll add my twopenny worth re: the Voluntary Register VRCT) run by IPEM on behalf of IPEM, ART and IET.

Unfortunately, whether you like it, or not, all of the professions in the NHS that have anything to do with patients are, at present, (or will have to be) registered (eventually) with the HPC. Basically, in my view, this is a good thing if this protects patients from incompetent practitioners of whatever profession and it's my understanding that's why the VRCT came about.

A number of technicians/tecnologists in my department, including myself, have been accepted onto the VRCT. It's very easy to do as it just involves submitting your CV, copies of qualifications, signatures of a proposer and supporter (e.g. members/fellows of IPEM)and a £10/year fee for which you get a nice certificate signed by Jim Methven (The Register).

You all know that there's been a debate for many years about recognising engineers, technologists and technicians as "professionals" Many of us have joined professional bodies such as IPEM the IEE and IIE (both now the IET) and other institutions in order to be recognised as "professionals". Therefore, I don't see any problem with being registered if it "protects" our profession against those that are incompetent, and let's face it, we all know a few who have blagged their way into our profession and manage to "bulls**t" their way through life. (I've met a few in my 43 years of working in the NHS man and boy!). In the NHS, where patients lives are at risk by our actions it's important that we ensure that only competent individuals are employed to work on medical equipment (By the way, that's one of the reasons why KSF has been introduced as part of Agenda for Change).

However, my main problem with the VRCT, the HPC and the DoH is the lack of any degree courses in Medical Engineering Technology. Again, all future entrants to our profession will need to hold such a degree to be employed as a technician. But how can they do this if there's no courses and how will they be registered on compulsory register if holding such a degree is a requirement?

The other problem that doesn't seemed to have been addressed is that where equipment is on contract will the company engineers and technicians who come in to service our hospital equipment have to be registered in order to work on this equipment?

Finally, there's the question of fees. Professions that are already registered with the HPC and it's a requirement for them to be registered in order to practice (i.e. work in the NHS) pay different fees ranging from a few pounds to many hundreds, even thousands per year to their registrating body. It's clear that this cannot be right. Either their fee should be met by their employer and/or there should be some sort of cap on these fees. Paying £10/year to be on the VRCT is very small beer but paying say £1000/year in order to work at your job is just not on! In my view any registrating body that charges these sort of fees are just robbers and theives.

Ian Rez Eng. Tech. MIET

Richard, lets not get our knickers in a twist, must be a Man U supporter.

Occupational standards are set at level 3, there are currently none at level 4/5 foundation degree level. Capital have passed on the mantel of foundation degree to Eastwood park and Kingston University. Skills for health are happy with the structure of the NOS. The foundation degree will be mapped to its structure allbeit set at level 4/5.

Bill If you forward your address I will post you a hard copy. Or alternativly log onto www.qca.org.uk

Search for the following:

Unit 60: carrying out fault diagnosis on medical equipment
Unit 61: Testing Medical Equipment
Unit 62 Carrying out scheduled servicing on medical equipment
unit 63: Servicing cardiovascular equipment
Unit 64: Servicing Physiologicalmonitoring and infusion equipment
Unit 65: Servicinganaesthetic and ventilation equipment
Unit 66: Servicing operating theatre and surgical equipment
Unit 67: Servicing medical imaging equipment
unit 68: Servicing Laboratory equipment
Unit 69: Servicing Dental equipment
Unit 70: Servicing Medicaltheraputic equipment
Unit 71: Servicing mechanical and electromechanical assistive technology equipment.

Hope this helps.

So I was correct in my belief that the previous posting of yours that I quoted from a while back was misleading. So much for inferences about others posting bull**** then.....foundation degrees are pitched at Level 5 NQF and don't actually exist for medical technology based subjects, certainly not mapped to NOS anyhow (as Ian Rez EngTech MIET mentions).

As you say:

Incidentally Level 4 is lower than the minimum qualification required for Band 6 (Specialist) under AfC and who knows where Level 3 will pitch new starters in the NHS grading system without experience that's deemed relevant. No-one's trying to scaremonger about requirements it's just facing facts and considering uncertainties. AfC and KSF is here with us now.....nevermind occupational standards.

Just as much "pie in the sky" as discussing the likely requirements of HPC and VRCT then......except that at least some aspects of the VRCT thread are pragmatic, i.e. based upon what's gone before for other allied medical/technical/scientific occupations that are now regulated under HPC.

Hi Ian

It seems that the organisers of the VRCT like to sneek little jems out every now and again. The need for a degree was one of them, but checking the IPEM site recently it seems they've done it again.

If you have a look at Mike's post previously you'll notice that the requirement is via the primary criterion "an approved vocational degree or post graduate diploma, or, an approved training scheme" and HNC via grandparenting for those in the post from July 2000 - Jan 2007. You'll notice it does says OR an approved training scheme, not sure when they introduced this bit.

Although the question that has to be asked is are these training schemes and degree's actually in place?. The closing of the grandparenting for people who come into the health sector after Jan 2007 means is going to be a bit harder to get these people on the VRCT, if these degree's and training courses are not in place by then!

HUW,
WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO HAVE THE National Occupational Standards for medical engineering POSTED ON SITE.
PLEASE

Occupational standards are set at level 3, and have been approved by QCA, and so we now have medical equipment engineering occupational standards. If you had visited the EBME conference last week you would heard SEMTA discuss this very issue. They are certainly not pie in the sky. Our courses at Capital also exist (currently set at level 3)and strange though it may seem are mapped to these very same occupational standards.

Our dedicated medical training facility is used by a number of Trusts and apprenticeship schemes along with MoD M&D technicians and all technicians recieve wonderful practical based learning, these competent technicians are currently employed within both services.

// Edit by Admin //

Seriously, come along to our next meeting to discuss the foundation degree (first year level 4, second year level 5) we could do with someone with such knowledge and expertise.

Hue, if you cannot down load the standards I will be happy to e-mail a copy.

Rob, Capital Medical Training Facility

Finding the medical engineering NOS is proving somewhat difficult for some folks, if you would like a copy on disc please email me your address and I will oblige.

My invitation is genuine and open not only to Mr Ling but to all EBME managers, visit us at our dedicated medical equipment training facility, with a free lunch thrown in.