EBME Forums Forums Management Equipment Libraries Next Blackpool Forum Discussion

The UK's NHS is a big firm, and turf wars are not (shall we say) unknown!

But just one quick point. Some places I have seen afford 24-hour access via keys or swipe cards (library cards?) ... and webcams!

Be careful Geoff swipe cards and webcams might be considered "boys toys" and as such a waste of time especially if theres library staff available 24/7! Luxury.

Hells bells - ya leave a thread for 5 mins! Ok lads methinks this one could run for sometime!

My own contribution for what its worth is this - I would not want to operate, nor could we run as well as we do, without the invaluable input of the engineers in the EBME department. We run from the same workshop/department and the relationship has untold benefits - in fact they are not untold - we shared them at the forum! For myself I am not a clinical engineer, I am first and foremost in fact a qualified librarian who retrained as a nurse, and so I have a foot in 2 camps. Our library is not in any way like a book library, as has been eluded to - our end users do not come and borrow or help themselves - we deliver all loans, and collect all equipment in. We do not offer 24 hours, but we do cover 8am till 8.30pm, and 8am till 1pm at weekends. I too do not at present see the need for RFID,as we have a robust tracking and traceability system - its not perfect but its enough to preclude expenditure on other systems. It doesnt mean however that learning about, and listening to knowledge and information from those in the know is not useful ! The forum is there so that we can share, so that we can learn best practice. It is there so that we can appreciate the wide diversity of people who contribute and make medical equipment libraries possible - yes they are in their infancy, but they are proving their worth as they develop! As we develop and share as professionals within this specialised field we need to be open to debate, open to constructive criticism, and able to hear from all people involved from engineers, to library support workers, library officers to nurses and beyond - does it matter who does what ? we are all surely working towards the same goal and that is to provide a service that will ultimately improve patient care or am I just too idealistic - I hope do hope so!

On that note - more volunteers for speakers and topics for the forum please and

any more discussion ( slap self for being drawn into the debate ) move to another thread as we need to have a coherent focus for the forum plans if people will bear with me please

Don't worry JoLee, we are indeed all on the same side, with similar (if not identical) aims and aspirations, as you mention.

But this is a forum ... debate is what it's all about!

Meanwhile, if your library is not in any way like a book library, why do you call it a library? Just wondering, that's all!

Hiya,

The references to RFID were (inapropriately IMO) brought into this thread from another one by David L who was critisising clinical engineers for replying to comments about RFID and whether libraries used it or not. IMO he should have raised this issue in the appropriate thread at the time instead of sniping.

This thread had/has nothing to do with RFID and no-one had commented on RFID until David opened up the matter. David actually hijacked this thread to knock others comments and contributions made in another thread that he disagreed with it appears to me. Thats what gets my goat. No point in having threads if people are going to pull in comments made in other contexts to have a go.

Libraries are actually managed storage and maintenance pools - their not libraries because libraries usually have responsible members that can be trusted to look after the equipment they borrow ie pick it up and return it when its due back. Not true in hospitals in my experience.

In my expereince a lot of nurses if not the majority who deal with equipment are not particularly responsible towards loaned equipment and couldnt give a monkies about it once theyve used it. No ownership and no comebacks and they treat it like rubbish (unless someones there at hand to look after it who works in the equipment pool).

Thats why santas helpers are required to do the legwork. They deal with "boys toys" as well. Anyhow Im only messing about I look forward to some excellent feedback relating to the implementation of "equipment libraries" on this site. Is there any feedback from the forum at Blackpool for us to look at?

Cheers.

There has already been a ton of stuff about "Equipment Libraries" on this website. Can we assume that interested parties have taken the trouble to review it all? What might be nice is for someone to do just that ... and then summarize the state of play for us all right here.

Biomeds have had loaner equipment available for as long as I can remember. Having a central ("managed") loaned equipment store is just an evolution of that idea. It may, or may not, be a good idea, mainly for the reason that Rob mentions. Frankly, unless a 24-access is part of the deal, I can't see that it's such a "great leap forward". In fact, the wards may have been better off without it (ie, they had their own kit, and could look after it, if they were so inclined).

Lastly, is the "library" a feature of British hospitals only, or has it caught on elsewhere?

Ok Geoff I will bite! As a qualified librarian with a BA (Hons) Library and Information Studies degree I hope I can give you a formal definition, and indeed you will find the universal definition for a library is “ a collection of information, sources, resources, and services”. In this day and age, a library is viewed as a far more flexible term for a collection of material for common use, or indeed any media- even medical equipment. .

It’s a clumsy term perhaps for what a medical equipment
“ library” represents in this day and age, but surely it’s a tad pedantic to hurl terminology around what feels to be a thinly veiled attempt to devalue what is emerging in some instances as an invaluable service. I trained as a librarian, and then re trained as a nurse. I therefore have both perspectives I feel to contribute. Stock or asset management is not a far cry from running an ordinary library. As efficient professionals work in tandem with clinical engineers staff, the stock is maintained, serviced and repaired. It is always clean and fit for purpose.

“the wards may have been better off without it (ie, they had their own kit, and could look after it, if they were so inclined)”

I can't see that it's such a "great leap forward".

Indeed they are NOT so inclined and as such the equipment is usually to be found in a poor state, in disrepair, if found at all. Wards are unable to locate equipment and thus unable to offer patient care. Since the establishment of the library at Blackpool we have saved the Trust, 3,200 nursing hours previously lost in searching for equipment (based on 20 mins on average spent ringing round looking for a piece of equipment ). Equipment has been retrieved from cupboards where it has been stood for months in pieces and brought back into service by our engineers.
We also provide a training role, as qualified nurses, and in tandem with practice development sisters, on medical devices within the Trust.

Maybe not such a leap forward for some, but a greatly appreciated innovation for nursing staff, and indeed, there have been benefits gleaned from the working partnership between the equipment library and the clinical engineers.

There has already been a ton of stuff about "Equipment Libraries" on this website. Can we assume that interested parties have taken the trouble to review it all? What might be nice is for someone to do just that ... and then summarize the state of play for us all right here

Are you bored? As you said so eloquently this is a forum and therefore a place for debate! Personally I assumed that the forum had an area designated for people employed within equipment libraries/pools/stores/rooms/departments to discuss their issues – I breathed a sigh of relief on finding it!

This thread has been turned into a whole other issue than was intended I wasn’t actually bothered about the debate going on. It is of interest in fact. I do however need to hear from people genuinely interested in expressing their willingness to attend the Blackpool forum in September 2008 – and perhaps their ideas as to what they would like presentations on. John Sandham and David from Cardiff have mentioned RFID for different reasons. The business case for an equipment library was another suggestion. Has anyone any other ideas for the agenda please? I may start another thread if you should wish to carry this discussion on from here (site hosts willing as I am conscious this is an EBME site and do not wish to overstep the hospitality).

Hiya,

"Personally I assumed that the forum had an area designated for people employed within equipment libraries/pools/stores/rooms/departments to discuss their issues – I breathed a sigh of relief on finding it!"

I dont think this means at the exclusion of other non-librarian members on the EBME site does it? Its just a more dedicated place for threads of this nature to be discussed by everyone or anyone whos a memeber whos interested or has something to say on the stuff that's actually been posted.

Is there any intention of actually posting any useful or intersting information relating to libraries and their implementation or is the EBME forum just going to be used to advertise and push others agenda without any feedback? A forum is a bit of a two-way thing and is meant to be inclusive, something to discuss, informative and interesting.

Any stuff to share from the 2007 library forum at Blackpool for example - it might influence others to visit the 2008 forum for instance......just out of interest and us having a library were I work I'd be interested in knowling what sort of things were discussed and what came out of it.

Even if its only to mention it to colleagues in our library and point them to it.

Cheers.

Yes, JoLee, you're right (well-bitten, by the way), the word "library" is misused, just like that other good old word, "workshop". Personally, I much prefer to stick to simple words, in their correct context, and following their traditional meaning. More the better for making oneself understood, in my experience.

I never went to university myself, of course, but I am able to see both (or more) sides of this and most other topics. It's known as "playing the Devil's Advocate", and I recommend it for anyone who really wants to master their subject.

While we all appreciate that this is "your" thread (in that you introduced it), once it's been hung out in the "public domain", as it were, it's fair game for others to respond, just as they (we) generally do with any or all of the others! But don't become discouraged, these things are in the nature of open internet forums. It's a powerful thing, I would say, being judged by your peers. That's probably why so many simply lurk on the forum, and never contribute. Fear (of ridicule), plain and simple!

There's a saying that I believe applies to lurkers:- "If you're not ready to run with the big dogs, better stay under the porch" (...which is, of course, exactly what they do)!

Thanks for your concern, by the way; but no, I never become bored. In fact, for me, there are never enough hours in the day. Would you like me to come along to your next session and talk about "The Case Against Equipment Libraries", or (better yet) "The Case for Properly Conducted Preventive Maintenance"?

Is there any intention of actually posting any useful or intersting information relating to libraries and their implementation or is the EBME forum just going to be used to advertise and push others agenda without any feedback?

Ouch! Well that's me told methinks! I dont think little old me could actually be accused of using anyone, and certainly pushing agendas isnt the intention! ebme.co.uk attended the forum in Blackpool and were kind enough to advertise us. I did politely ask if it was ok to publicise our intention to hold another event in late 2008. As for the comment relating to useful feedback etc - certainly I would be more than happy to outline the results of the forum day and the workshops held. If people want the presentations given on the day I can send them - just pm me. I can also summarise the workshop feedback on this site if people wish.

Geoff you little devil you. "Devils advocate" works for me - tends to generate a response certainly. Run for fear of ridicule is certainly not my thing - I havent survived 2 years in a workshop of engineers for nothing!

I merely claimed ownership of the thread to point out that amidst the debate that ensued I do need to accumulate some feedback for the forum - lesson learnt - people can pm me if they have suggestions and meanwhile the lurkers and peers can operate freely in this thread on this fascinating topic of to equipment library or not to equipment library!

OOoooo the case for properly conducted preventative maintenance eh! So do I surmise then that you feel an equipment service is unnecessary if this is carried out adequately ? if so why ?
I can only of course comment from the standpoint of the person operating the equipment service - I am not a clinical engineer and so for me the benefits of the equipment service (lets call it that eh - I am bored with the semnatics surrounding the word " library" ) are proven. Our Team Leader of EBME did do a presentation on the benefits and disadvantages of the EBME/ equipment library relationship

As for the equipment service benefits. They are as follows:

- assisting in the standardisation of equipment
- contributing to patient safety and the management of risk
- help towards reducing cross infection and its associated costs
- increasing confidence having mechanisms in place to improve training
- establishment of more effective communication with end users and patients
- provision of detailed structures to contribute towards the management and maintenance of equipment
- improve efficiency with the establishment of a tracking system, allowing for good asset monitoring
- reduction in asset holdings through phased standardisation
-reduce maintenance in long term - move from reactive to proactive
- improvement of ward areas by freeing up storage areas
- reduce damage to equipment by correct storage and maintenance
- reduction of time spent by staff in looking for equipment

and more besides. These were some of the benefits identified within the business case for our service, and certainly they have been realised.

So for anyone else ? what do others feel about the role of an equipment service within the NHS ? waste of space or a valuable contribution ?


Yes Geoff maybe you could come along and present on the case against equipment libraries in September - certainly would be lively!