EBME Forums Forums Management Modernisation (Formerly, Controls Assurance) Document Storage Software

In some NHS biomed shops I have visited, the method of storing EST records appears to be the drawer on the test trolley being stuffed full of curled up paper strips containing results that are literally fading away! I wonder what the archeologists of future millennia will make of all that?

Meanwhile, regardless of the pros and cons of preserving EST data, as a "data" man myself I am more interested in how such data is best retained, rather than the if and the why. How long should such data be keep at hand? Does it get discarded when the equipment it relates to is retired ... or does it get retained for possible analysis some time in the future?

These days (unlike the pre-historic era wherein I cut my teeth), data storage is cheaper (£ per megabyte, or whatever) than it ever was, and methods of storing data are many and various. But, if even enthusiasts like Marcel can't find the time to wade through his 25 years worth of stuff, one wonders what use are all those full-up mega-drives going to be in, say, a hundred years from now.

In these modern times of "information overload", where (technically speaking) "everything is possible", I would suggest that we need to think long and hard about what information our databases contain, and retain. Either that or we shall need to construct huge "data vaults" in which to stack our old data (with back-ups, naturally), and of course, a database to catalogue it all!

As I write this I suspect that some bright spark will immediately come back and suggest archiving old data "out there" on the world-wide web ... OK perhaps, let it sit, forgotten, unwanted, unloved, and unlikely ever to be called up again on someone else's server in ... who knows, Beijing, Brighton, or Belize ... after all, "out of sight (site) is out of mind"!

Thinking about it a little more, I realize that possibly the best procedure would be to parcel up all test results into .xls format, and send them via email attachment once a year to the relevant government department. That way some over-paid and irresponsible idiot, having "downloaded" it all onto his (her) "memory stick" can safely get rid of it in the officially approved manner. That is, by simply leaving it on the bus, taxi or train on the way home!

One of the best NHS Med Eng Depts. I worked in, had a very simple but effective policy, it was called " Trust the Technician "

If the Tech said EST. OK. that was it, end of story.

Sorry Mate, but that doesn't address the points raised by Marcel (and others). What about proving (as in, during an enquiry, or in a Court of Law) that the tests were carried out? And what about being sure (as the senior man) that younger techs were in fact conducting the tests correctly?

Why, what was wrong with these leads (and why are adaptor leads being used anyway)? And what remedial action was taken, I wonder? Sounds to me like an example of two (three?) wrongs not making a right!

Chuckle

Come on, then, Eddie ... what's the policy on retaining EST results out there? Just "Pass/Fail"? Or does the tech glance at the previous results? Do you ever get asked to produce (or analyze) historical data? How long do you keep it (do you still have stuff going back to 1983)?

I think they tried to cut back on costs and used cheap mains cable, the insulation resistance was too low. As for why they used the adaptors, it's like quite a few items these days, a European lead was supplied and instead of fitting UK leads they just supplied a Euro to UK adaptor. As for what was remedial action was necessary the MDA with action required is here and it was a lovely time searching every single bed for an adaptor manufactured between the two dates specified.

Outrageous!

Well-Shin? Oh, obviously of the best quality, then, from such a well-known name. In my opinion, the suppliers (that is, the people taking the money) should have been told to come in and sort that lot out!

But (forgive me for asking), how come such rubbish gets through the in-house acceptance procedure in the first place? This is Britain ... we use BS-1363 mains plugs and sockets here!

Back "in my day" (that is, when safety was a practical issue to be taken seriously, and not just a matter of so-called "risk assessment"), "adaptors" (or what our American friends sometimes like to accurately describe as cheaters) in any shape or form were always actively discouraged. And quite rightly too.

Perhaps I should have said earlier "three prongs don't make a right"!

PS: having just glanced at the Medical Device Alert concerned, now I'm even more depressed! Just look at how (badly) they've laid out the "problem":-

"These adapter leads have an unacceptably low insulation resistance. This presents a risk of electrocution as 240 V can flow through the metal frame of the bed if an open circuit earth fault develops."

Mind you, if anyone has the time (and the inclination) for some real shockers, just take a look at this little lot! Actually, there are some "real beauts" in there (some may even seem almost unbelievable to the more inexperienced "younger viewer")!

If your asking how they get into hospitals you'll notice that the MHRA's advise is to replace them, no where do they condemn their use. These adaptors have become common practice although it does seem to be bringing Euro in via the back door. If on the other hand your asking how the problems weren't detected on acceptance test as mentioned they fail gradually overtime.

No, what I'm really saying is why weren't those adaptors binned, the Schuco plugs cut off the cable from the bed, and British BS-1363 plugs fitted? That way, they could just be plugged straight into the wall socket outlets as they should be. I think you'll find that the law in the UK requires that BS-1363 be followed! But, no doubt someone did a "risk assessment" to show that all's well.

I'm just a private individual, and do not hold any official post (except, of course, that of taxpayer). So I hope I'm free to express the view that (from what I've seen and heard) I've got absolutely zero confidence in the the MHRA, or the advice or "guidelines" they come up with. I have yet to hear of a case where they have been, shall we say, firm with the manufacturer or supplier. Someone please show me that I'm wrong!

Standards seem to falling every where I choose to look these days. Just to make things easier for people to sell foreign junk, as far as I can tell. Rest assured, that if I were in charge, there wouldn't be a single non-1363 plug anywhere in the hospital! And, why indeed should there be?