EBME Forums Forums Management Professional Issues Nursing Issues Key Trainers

In our Trust we make sure that key personnel are trained trainers with a background of experience eg. Theatre equipment will have Biomed Techs , ODA/Ps , Th. Nurses trained as trained trainers - these would generally be experienced staff who have been here for a while and who promise they're not going to leave (joke). But you do need not go overboard on trained trainers, its a case of a fine balance, and if in the future an experienced member of staff wants to step up for the challenge then assess them and let them do it.

As for the "nodding donkeys" I've seen plenty of ex forces who couldn't pin a tail on a donkey (without the blindfold)in my travels.

As I've said many times before (but will repeat yet again, as this ex-forces theme seems to persist):-

"Repetition trains the donkey"!

Think about it!

Geoff - thought about it - do you keep donkeys?

Not myself, but I do know someone who cares for distressed ones (and hint:- she's always looking for donations towards their upkeep)!

They are the most long-suffering (yet uncomplaining) of beasts, as you may already know.

I don't know if you're ever been out in the so-called Middle East, but (sadly) you will find many abused animals out there. And not all of 'em are the ex-forces types you sometimes find shuffling about in the back of biomed workshops!

Nice to see you making a post for the first time in six years, by the way. Living up to your name, you might. Now that I've flushed you out, my day is complete, you might say. Time for a bacon sandwich, then (and no, I don't keep pigs, either ... the cleanest of animals for those who don't know them)!

I replied,but deleted, but cant be bothered to reiterate the necessity of polices and procedures - bored now! Baiting isnt helpful and it sure doesnt reflect well on the website - luckily Ive an interest in personal development whatever and whenever I can!

Hey, don't be like that! I used to be the king of Policies and Procedures! How many would you like?

On the other hand, a wise old dude once cautioned that "mediocrity finds safety in standardization".

I also picked this one up from somewhere along the way (and some years ago):- "The purpose of a method is to tell you what to do when you don't know what you're doing. Any method that relies too heavily on previous experience isn't telling you much"!

Take it or leave it, as you choose. But this stuff is the "wisdom of the ages"!

Personal development? Phooey! Just live an interesting (and varied) life!

People like me (you know, mere engineering technicians) never get bored. There's always something "challenging" going on. It's an attitude, a state of mind.

This is an internet forum. Not a meeting place for narrow minded academics or so-called professionals. No one pays a subscription fee, as far as I am aware. Within the normal rules netiquette (as sometimes postulated by our good Mr.Huw), all are free to toss in their ha'penny's worth. Even the dull and the ignorant (yes, like me). It's a very democratic process, and that's one of the main reasons that I support it.

Meanwhile, baiting is for bears (or badgers) ... not donkeys!

Personal development? Phooey! Just live an interesting (and varied) life!

How do you know I dont ? The beauty of the net is you just dont know people, and our perceptions colour our opinions of others! My life is ridiculously varied, and comes about because I remain active and interested in a whole range of stuff - not just work!

Not a meeting place for narrow minded academics or so-called professionals.
Ouch! gods you can dish it out! but can you take it?
Hey, don't be like that! tells me you struggle Geoff!

I appreciate the wisdom of those older and wiser than me, what I dont appreciate is a wholesale condemnation of people who choose to study and then are slammed for it. I admit that you have irritated me today - but hey beneath that exterior you have some very useful knowledge, can stretch a hand to those who need advice, and clearly have a lengthy service to draw experience from.Go for it, but dont always expect people to lie down and put up with your tone at times


And anyway when are you coming to the forum to battle face to face? Incidentally the last thing you are is dull and ignorant!

Maybe you're trying to do too much! Perhaps the need for a little more focus is indicated there.

Why not take a step back, and (as they say) take a little time to smell the roses?

Just because someone (like myself, as an example) doesn't boast a university degree, doesn't mean we haven't studied you know! It's just that some of us did not have the opportunities that seem to fall on everyone's lap these days. We had to more or less figure things out for ourselves (and, are probably the better for it, in my opinion).

And yes, I agree that a commentator shouldn't "dish it out" if s/he can't take it, as well. I can.

I offer advice, freely given. If people don't agree with it, or don't "like" it because it doesn't suit their own particular version of reality, well, that's up to them.


Actually, I was just trying to be kind. And wasting my time, obviously.

Must go now. I've got a donkey to feed.

This now looks like a debate between those who went to school and those too busy working to attend school, give me experience over degrees any time, as to pay bands, pay people what they are worth (productivity and enterprise) Me, myself too busy working to earn a degree

Placing modesty aside (just this once) despite having always been a "top of the class" sort of kid at school (even though my Old Man never let me do homework at er, home:- I can still hear him bellowing "School work is to be done at school!"), I nevertheless left school early (at age fifteen, as we could back then), at the end of the fourth year, and so obviously didn't get a shot at University.

I was lucky enough, however, to be steered towards an Apprenticeship in the Army (I doubt that young people in the UK get such opportunities these days, regrettably), and spent three years doing that. It provided the solid foundation for everything I have done since!

In later years, my "university" has been the University of Life. Like you Neil, an inquiring mind, an interest in all things technical, and learning by doing. By far the best combination, in my opinion. Plus a willingness to learn, and take on board new ideas (if they are indeed found to be any good ... which is not always the case)! That's how many of us old-school biomeds were "taught"! Hands-on, practical people, we were, in many ways, the pioneers.

There used to be quite a few of us around. Engineering technicians at C&G, ONC or HNC level. Often ex-Forces, and almost certainly ex-something or other (TV trade is another one that comes to mind). We were the backbone of biomed (and probably still are, for all I know ... I would like to think so, anyway).

And that's one of the reasons that I kind of resent biomed being hijacked (as it seems to be today) by what I would call "educated idiots"! That is, people who appear to be more interested in protecting their precious "professional status", whether this guy is on a different Pay Band to some other guy, NHS politics, car-parking perks, talking about becoming "clinical scientists" and all the rest ... rather than the practicalities of the job, and cracking on with getting the work done, for the benefit of the hospital, the sick, injured and needy. In short, missing the point of it all by at least a country mile!

People may think (correctly in this case) that I have a "thing" about not going to University myself. Well I admit it, I do. Perhaps I should have stayed on, done the sixth form, and all the rest. No doubt I would have become a "University success", as others did! However, Fate decreed that I take a different path. Maybe it was the Gods of Biomed who intervened, who knows! And anyway, what real value are these degrees nowadays, now that they are two-a-penny? That is, "everybody has one"!

By the way, I have worked with, for (and had working for me) many university trained people. I don't recall ever having a problem in "keeping up with them" (often the reverse, in fact). With most of the (best) people I have known and admired, it just never became an issue. In fact, casting my mind back to some of the genius guys I have had the pleasure (privilege) of working with, I can honestly say that I don't remember if they had an engineering degree or not (but most likely it was the latter)!

Meanwhile, with all this talk of training, "training the trainer" and all the rest, I can't understand why hospital-based people don't just follow the time-honoured mentoring system used by surgeons:-

"Watch one, do one, teach one"!

If anyone needs further explanation, then that in itself is indicative of the problem, as far as I'm concerned.