EBME Forums Forums Free discussion Free discussion Plans for Public Sector Regional Pay

Regional pay is not new concept, it has been tried and seen to fail in many private companies in the distant past. In fact I would be surprised if any of the FTSE 100 companies practise this form of demarcation. For example what happens when one is working in a high pay region and the company wishes to fill a promotion post in a low pay region, what's the incentive? Large national companies such as Banks, British Telecom etc. need staff to be flexible in where they work and they do not get that by changing the pay rate each time staff move. The issue is that this coalition of public schoolboys hate the public sector and try to rubbish their employees but due to the public sector having good terms and conditions (fought for and defended by strong union support) they can attract the best motivated and qualified employees and leave the private sector at a disadvantage where they have always traditionally paid low wages.

For example, if you are a teacher, what incentive will there be to teach in a low pay area? The motivated and most qualified will move to a high pay area (of course) thus perpetuating the disadvantages that low pay areas have always suffered.

I'm pleased to read in the post above that Michael Foot wore a duffel coat rather than the donkey jacket that our truth seeking press (wrongly) liked to report at the time..

Another example would be the Armed Forces.

We are a nation of chavs, "governed" by spivs, Barney.

Why do you think we are over-run by foreign workers? Cheap wages equals increased profits, Mate. That's all there is to it.

And why do you think we have had (and continue to have) an "open door" policy regarding immigration? "Divide and rule", as I have already mentioned. In other words the deliberate dismantling (mocking, even) of our traditional British (and especially, English) values and way of life.

How come? To prepare the way for the NWO (or One-World Government).

Why do British folk (the real British folk, that is) put up with all this? Because we a tolerant, decent lot, by and large. And unfortunately, many mistake tolerance for weakness.

By the way, regarding that teacher you mention ... that "low pay area" is hardly likely to provide the most well-behaved (rewarding) pupils either, is it?

I think we can all agree that George is on a loser with this one.

The issue of foreign workers is extremely close to my heart. I can only write from experience but for anyone interested, here are some of mine.

One of my sons owns a house and he lets the rooms in the house, very often he will have rooms occupied by fit and able British persons on benefits who can't get a job, whilst in the other rooms he has Sri Lankans, Phillipines, Polish, Lithuanians, Turkish, and now even Russians to name some of the many. Some of the British are unemployed building workers (although they still keep in practise if the state of their tools and clothes are witnessed). Other unemployed fit and able British tenants (with a little spoken English) are not able to find employment whilst Sri Lankans etc. with no English can find work with little difficulty. Now I fully understand that the Europeans have free movement and many work in the building industry whilst British builders lose their jobs to claim benefits and work on the black market but the real nonsense is the Colleges that advertise courses as full time to attract foreign students who use this as a ruse to come over to work full time. Several girls have come over on a full time course offered at a local college that in fact only requires one/two days of actual attendance per week. Not only do these college courses allow them to work full time (or part time at several jobs) but they also bring over their husbands and children on the basis of having a student visa.

When my local Con MP canvassed me prior to the election I mentioned this abuse of the system that the previous lot presided over and all he said was a few platitudes (probably wrongly thinking that I was a far right supporter) about kicking them all out and then scuttled down my front drive.

I better stop before I really get started as I am mindful that I have wandered off the original topic of regional pay.

For any of you reading this that sense that I have any personal problems with the tenants at my son's house nothing could be further from the truth I have found them trustworthy, honest and likeable people and my son has built up many friendships with them and spent time staying with relatives of his tenants in Sri Lanka and Turkey and I personally have socialised with many of the Sri Lankans due to an interest in the subjects they are studying at college ie agriculture. I wish them all the very best. However, it cannot be right in a country of high unemployment for this situation to go unchecked. To my simple mind it's a bit like increasing the retirement age - if there are only so many jobs available and if they are occupied by people past retirement age or people from another country how can our youth be expected to see any future or contribute to our society?

If the rush for Public Sector Regional Pay by the coalition does go ahead I look forward with relish to seeing the first challenge against it in a court of law.

By the Governments own admission, one of the reasons for NHS pay modernisation was to ensure equal pay for work of equal value. This is a follow on (from many other things) such as the Equal Pay Act. Under this act it is currently illegal to pay people different salaries for 'work of equal value' irrespective of where they live in the country.

The Act is meant to apply to a disparity between women and men. However, what will happen when women are paid differently to women in another area (when they do work of equal value) and men with other men etc.

If this happens at the moment it is possible to select a comparitor from another Trust (in a completely different region) to pursue the case in law.

This is how we came to have the Agenda for Change system. The government will have to change current legislation if they want to push this one through. If they don't - bring it on, let's watch the bunfight. I don't think they have thought it through. They will lose.

I believe Foundation Trusts do not have to stick with AfC pay scales and can set their own. And as all NHS Trusts are supposed to become foundation trusts the whole AfC and equal pay is out the window.
Robert

Both Mike & Rojo, valid points.

With reference to Mike, the bureaucrats could get round the argument that everyone doing the same job would get the same pay, (to comply with equal opportunities), but it would be supplemented with a "local weighting" to take into account variations in regional costs. Just like the existing High Cost Area Supplements, Inner london, Outer London & Fringe areas.

Rojo, also correct! Foundation Trusts already ignore guidelines agreed under Agenda for Change, by producing hybridised jobs with "salary scales" which fall outside the agreed national bands.

One step forward ... two steps back!

All George has to do is abolish London Weighting Allowance. Why should folk get paid more just for working in the Capital? Many (most?) of the positions are taken by foreigners anyway.

Anyway, every cloud has a silver lining. If folk are going to start voting with their feet (more of a threat than a real possibility, of course), then perhaps we'll be seeing a few more openings for agency techs, most of whom aren't too fussy about where they work.

Meanwhile ... here's something else that hasn't yet been mentioned:- pensions. In short, Public Sector workers (time servers) get them, Dark Side workers (lurkers?) don't.

@Barney: I hear you, Mate. I may have related before that I lived for a while in the most "ethnically diverse" ward* (sub-parish, cluster of terraced streets) in England. And what fun we had. Twenty odd languages and hardly a common one between us. And there was a pub stoically flying the Union Flag right in the middle of it all. Gypsy music going on into the small hours, and young ladies plying their trade in traditional style on the street corner. And a hand car wash at the other end (right next door to the cannabis factory). The mosque was in the same street as mine, but further down, next to the garage run by Iranians. The corner shop was run by a Palestinian bloke (in full desert garb). He was married to a Polish woman. I wonder why?

* Post Code supplied upon request.

Yeah, and I doubt that it's Len McCluskey ... or, for that matter, Bob Crow.

Have you been playing Sim City again Geoff and confusing it for real life

I don't even know what "Sim City" is, Dave ... although I suppose I could hazard a guess.

Otherwise, your post is a bit too oblique for me, I'm afraid.