EBME Forums Forums Free discussion Free discussion Dead-Mans-Shoes

A topic that was 'lost'

Who, out there, can relate to Dead-Mans- Shoes'?

Definitions of fossils, please.

If a manager has been promoted from within, is this necessarily a good thing?

We do it this way because we've always done it this way....sounds familiar!!

For us to move forward, do we need management from 'outside', hopefully with an electronics background, rather than the old guard - 'stick-in-the-muds'?

Decisions can't be made from stradling the fence.

Does, 'I'm alright jack' prevail?

Dead mans shoes is the norm is it not!.. I dont think that getting a manager from outside a Department is necessarily the way forward.. but I wouldn't rule it out either!.. It all depends who is available from within doesn't it!..

But then again Managers are generally better to be trained as mangers.. we have all met ones who have come through the ranks.. but being good at technical problems does not always mean you can manage does it!

Anyway Mark.N as you've become a regular contributer too these pages.. were you always in EBME or as you say have you come in from an outside industry?

Hi, Mark.E

I would like to think that 'natural progression'was the norm. I realise that it is hard to justify a dept' where all the the techs are MTO4's - by the way, what does an MTO4 look like..never met one before.

I can't see a problem with having a dept where MTO3's are the norm.

I suppose that it all depends on whether or not that specific tasks are performed by the various grades of MTO ie. MTO1's only PPM.

To have a truely flexible workforce, we should all be able to acheive MTO3 status.

I have worked in various trades in the past. It took a fall from a house roof for me to get here - the ground comes fast when your falling and it bloody hurts when you hit it. This is the only job that I've had since I qualified in electronics. I thought that the NHS wouldn't mind having damaged goods, plus, their very caring...

I guess from your last comment that your an MTO 3,... you'd better move to Manchester if you want to see an MTO4.. as there are an abundance there!... one of my old colleagues was an acting MTO5 before he left....

Seriously though.. the grading depends on where you live.. and how desparate the hospital is too keep you..

M&M
Sometimes, career progression means moving around. Hospitals in scenic locations with cheap housing (cornwall for example) tend to keep their staff. ie. dead mans shoes.
If you are looking for a fast track to MT04, London or any big city with a lot of Hospitals gives ample opportunity to go from mto2 to 4 quickly. I've seen a colleague go from MTO2 to MTO4 in less than 4 years

This is the trouble, why would I want to move to places like London & Manchester - is that progress?

What is the point in having different grades of MTO, within the same dept, if there isn't a difference in the work that those MTO's are expected to do?

Hey I started as an ATO, then progreesed to an MTO3 within five years.. at a Manchester Hospital. If I'd been at any other I'd still be waiting to get to a MTO2!
Now I believe some of my colleagues are MTO4's?, at the same Hospital.

You've seen the vacancies at Steppinghill and Macclesfield, and previously Chester...why do yoy think these hospitals are offering such high grades...?

natural progression will only go so far..as in Nature!.. then it settles to a level of equilibrium!.. if you want to get on get out! as they say.

Surely the whole point of having different grades within the same department is to give people some chance of progression ?
There are only five years within a scale and then you're stuck at the top. People get upset (quite rightly) if they have been in a job for years, done lots of training, got loads of "local knowledge" - and them some upstart comes into the department with only a couple of years experience and more questions than answers - and gets put on the same grade !
If you make everyone an MTO3 - how are you going to differentiate between those that work their socks off and those that just cruise through till home time ?

Roy,

I,totally, agree with you.

My argument is about the lack chance to progress within a dept. If, once a technician has reached the top of their scale and their manager is happy with their work then an upgrade would be nice.

If a technician is doing the work of the next grade up, an upgrade would be nice.

Each technician should have a personal job description, allowing for any extra duties.

If there were clear difference between the work of the various grades this would help matters... there are clear differences in the pay!

Everyone within our dept has risen from an MTO1.

We are having problems retaining our 'younger' members of staff - on average they only stay for 2 years'.

This lack of 'new blood', young and old, can't be good. Ultimately, the lack of questions and answers leads to..."we do it this way because we have always done it this way".