EBME Forums Forums Free discussion Free discussion Training for new MTO's

Bench only training means you never get to understand the core principles of what you are trying to achieve, and ultimately that can't be in the best interests of the end user, whoever that may be. Just because that's how it's been done in the past doesn't make it right. The idea of a classroom based training package isn't new, the Armed Forces run a 5 month classroom based Medical and Dental engineering conversion course, along very similar lines to that suggested in previous replies, for their Biomedical Engineers, and modules of the course are open (at a price!) to civilian industry. Indeed we had several NHS guys (and gals!) join us for modules when I went through. Finally, The University of Cardiff does a Masters Degree in Clinical Engineering for those who wish to study to that level. See you all in Wales 26th September!

I have not had the benefit of a RAF 5-month conversion course in Biomedical Engineering but I do feel entitled to comment. To put it simply all I was getting at is the value, to the individual being trained, of appropriate practical experience and recognition of such training by employers. It is a hand-on job, after all, so hands-on skills as well as an academic element or background information need to be taught - concurrently, of course.

To ensure the best kinds of candidates (who may not be well-trained in engineering principles - not from the RAF, exclusively) are trained to do the job, what I was also getting at is that, the basic engineering skills need to be there before individuals undertake such a course (entry requirements) or, otherwise, taught on the course (hands-on) and afterwards experience needs to be gained under supervision (practical experience). I am talking about training, to do a job or for a career, not just education.

I never mentioned the RAF! However I agree wholeheartedly with RL's comments. Formal education coupled with practical hands on experience produces quality knowledgable engineers, and should be the basis of any biomedical engineer's training. I am certainly not studying just for the sake of education for sure, does anyone? As a side issue, is there any medico-legal issues to be addressed by not giving proper training (as directed by the manufacturer or otherwise) before allowing anyone to engineer medical kit?

P.S. My dad has got socks older than the RAF (so he says!).

You mentioned the 5-month conversion course available to the armed forces - is the RAF not part of the armed forces then? I know that a lot of our colleagues come from RAF background and are very good, generally, from what I've seen fairly recently and so I'm informed.

Although I did watch a so-called army-trained technician, briefly employed at the last place I worked, hold the active blade of an electrosurgery unit, switched-on with dispersive plate attached (but fortunately O/C) pump the cut footswitch whilst asking what it did! Fortunately the fault wasn't with the alarm-circuitry or the shutdown circuitry. So I can't vouch for the Army's classroom biomedical conversion training. Perhaps the guy wasn't in class the day they mentioned electrosurgery!

As for your Dad's socks, perhaps he should invest in the latest ones - they do a whole host of sizes these days! Still the same colour though, I believe.

Jim
I agree that all levels of technician should be aware of CNST.

A good way is for EBME Managers to find out themselves (what they should already know) and tell their managers that they should be involved in it and kept informed. They should also pass on that info to the rest of the Team . But some people like to hog the info -
mushroom syndrome I believe!

For those of you not made aware:
CNST - Clinical negligence scheme for trusts
The Clinical Negligence Scheme for Trusts (CNST) was established by the NHS Executive in 1994 "to provide a means for Trusts to fund the costs of clinical negligence litigation and to encourage and support effective management of claims and risk."

The Trust's star rating is influenced by the organisation's clinical negligence performance.
CNST has determined risk management standards criteria and has set three levels (not stars) of compliance against these. Level three compliance is the highest level of achievement.

Pull up a sand bag....

MOD 'med and dent' training is in effect cross training of predominently experienced technicans/engineers from all three services. Techncians enter this specialist trade group via individual Service selection procedure, therefore his/her skills as a technician are rarely called into question.

This 5 month (more recently reduced to about 3.5 months) training course is generic and covers all modalities similar to our own civilain version(www.cap-medical.co.uk)

At the end of training technicans are posted to military hospitals around the globe to do their bit, Kosovo, Bosnia, Gulf, Cyprus, Haslar etc. And it works well and has done for over forty years. So if any former technican requires their past exam results give Daz a ring at Arborfield.

On the bench training of course has its place, nevertheless it is mainly uncontrolled and should not be used as some cheap replacement for dedicated formal training in order to appease Chief excecutives who have a duty and the funds to provide such training.

Our course is for newbie technicians, who wish to enter what is after all a very exciting and rewarding profession. We are currently being assessed by a number of academic bodies for accreditation at entry level MTO1/MTO2 (Diploma). Hope to announce this at the fourthcoming EBME conference.

Our academic partners (A large west midlands college and University) will further enhance academic learning to Foundation and Higher degree levels, if the techncian wishes to pursue that route. IHEEM will provide engineering recognition post academic accreditation and we are also currently in discusion with IEEE.

I recognise that we have a lot more work to do, so help us turn this into a center of excellence for EBME technicians, make an excuse to visit us and 'chew over that fat'. I will even pay your bus fare, feed and water you.

P.S We have three spaces available for our module 1 course running in October.

Hey Bob, don't forget the ARGUS!!!!!!!!!!!!

My apologies to the senior Service (Navy) Med and Dent techs. They must win the prize for the most unusual location for an EBME department, Royal Fleet Auxillary (RFA) Argus, recently refurbished, and if I am correct, upto 200 beds, floating hospital? recently returned from the Gulf.

100 beds to be exact! 4 tables in 2 theatres, 10 bed ICU, 20 bed HDU and 70 general wards beds. Digital imaging X-ray and CT scanner, full laboratory facilities, full maxfax and dental suite, almost 1000 EBME items and one EXTREMELY BUSY Med & Dent Tech. First to go. last to know in the Gulf! Kept very busy mind! See you guys in Feb for the training package. In fact, might see you in Cardiff next week perhaps??!!
P.S. Quote from RFA Engineering Officer; "What is there for you to do onboard except PAT testing??". Says so much for them doesn't it?