EBME Forums Forums EBME Website EBME Website "Warning" - Managed Equipment Services (MES)

Hello all.

Is anyone interested in the subject of Managed Equipment Services (MES) provided by external Original Equipment Manufacturer's (oem's) or via other external companies?

I've recently attended two forums, one on 24.02.06 which had only NHS staff discussing the issues (and invited external speakers) and the other on the 01.03.06 comprising of private companies views!

External companies are providing MES's to Trusts on all sorts of items: Imaging, Laboratory, Theatres, ITU's, general medical equipment, chairs, lamps, etc. These companies are moving in on what is traditionally been EBME services. They are providing, in my opinion, their view of what an MES should be. I have my reservations between the differences of an "NHS run MES" or an "external company run MES".

It was clear that a lot of Trusts are "re-inventing the wheel" when it comes to EBME/ Medical Physics dept's input to this procedure. There appears to be no online forum for discussion groups. Does anyone think it would be a good idea to start a major topic group underneath "Nursing Issues" on this site?

Eddie............

Interesting that you thought it necessary to issue a “Warning”, Eddie!

Yeah, let’s give this one an airing (…but not under “Nursing”, I would have thought)!

My own personal take is that anything that improves the efficiency of the technical support of equipment in the UK Health Service is most welcome. Can’t help wondering what you mean by Trusts “re-inventing the wheel”, though. Perhaps they’re simply giving the issue some (long-overdue) thought! Discuss.

Hiya Geoff.

Point taken, it's my grammer! I didn't mean in the Nursing part! I meant a separate section on the main part of the forum. After reading my own words, you may have the next 10mins to take the p**s! Mercy is not expected!

The history behind my request:
I opened my mouth at yesterdays forum and have been approached by several, non EBME, PFI MES project managers that need assitance on what they should be looking for when they go out to the market. I have also been in contact with EBME dept's that may be in the process of being "tuped" (if that's how it's spelt!) out to the private sector.

I have an external MES for all of our diagnostic imaging kit at my Trust (about to start). In addition, I have a sub-contract, to that MES, for my tech's to carry out first line repairs, etc. Apart from savings to the Trust from the unitary payment, this sub-contract has secured some of my tech's jobs and made a difference to their AfC bandings!

I was amazed at the what is commonly called operational leases that are being sold as MES's. In a word, I'm hopping mad at the current situation and the number of Trusts that need help! All of these Trusts are spending my tax money and could be getting so much more for their meager funds.

Sorry for the rant!

Eddie.............

Eddie,
Quite a while ago, I went to a presentation at a hospital where I worked to hear an equipment management company and a (medical) consultant from a nearby hospital praise outsourced medical equipment management. They were saying that before the change over they had out of date equipment now the agreement was that none of the equipment should be no older than 7 years. So they had a lot of shiny new equipment and a happy consultant.
I pointed out that this cost money. By the company presenting its bill, the hospital was being forced to pay for what it should be paying any way - plus company profits? And could the money not be simply given to an in house equipment replacement budget so the same could be done.
The reply from our hospital operations manager was "Robert, you know the NHS does not work like that." Afterwards he said to me that other uses would be found for the money if it were kept within the hospital.
So my thoughts are: outsourcing of equipment management is just a fix of poor hospital financial management. You just pass it on to someone else to do for you because yuo cannot do it yourself.
Robert

Hello Rojo.

What you said is true. The current problem is that there is a drive to out-source all "non-patient services" (cleaners, canteen, Computing, HR, EBME, etc. These companies are getting their feet in via finance and providing their idea of a mangaged service. The Trusts don't realise what the've lost, till it's gone! Once EBME has gone, it will never be brought back.

I've got no problem with Trusts paying for equipment replacement every 5, 7 or 10yrs. I have no problem with Trusts out-sourcing the risk, providing EBME type people are involved in the process.

There are good financial reasons to out-source medical kit: VAT recovery on the service element of the MES, no capital charges, risk passed to external company, etc. My problem is that EBME depts are being "shafted" in the process. Some Trusts are setting up MES's without consultation with EBME's or some EBME's are not concerned with or unwilling to discuss this issue with their management (head in sand approach!). In addition, some Trusts do not have EBME services.

If an MES is going to happen in your Trust, then the EBME dept. should be driving the process and making sure that their staff are protected and payed for any sub-contracts that they might be involved with.

I honestly don't think people realise the changes that Trusts are going through. I'm alarmed that company engineers are coming through our doors and trying to fix kit that they haven't been officially trained on! If we did that, we would be shown the red card!

Oooh, wife just phoned, got go. Have a good evening!

Eddie

(somebody create a spell checker please!)

Eddie,
You are right about the way it is being implemented is worrying. Would a new clinical service be agreed by accountants then the doctors told it happening? I know of a head of department in the midlands who only knew of the outsourcing when it was fully agreed and generally announced.
Alistair Deller of ECRI used to give a very interesting talk on the subject and would offer his (paid) services as a consultant to any Trust who was thinging of setting up an outsorced service. He would make sure lots of small detail went in to the contract, so the service remained the same. Getting rid of the fine detail and actually offering a reduced service is one way of making money for the companies. 90% of PM done on time but no making up useful leads or putting screws back in surgeons glasses. And as for teaching the users how to operate the equipment correctly thus relieving the repair techs of lots of NFF work.....
Robert

Ho neeeds ah spel chekker?

You obviously do as well as a grammar wizard - Never heard of read back Robert?

OK guys. So what’s the answer?

Time, education, read back, cut and paste with auto spellchecker etc. etc.!!!!!!
Most of the time a few spelling mistakes can be interpreted, it's when you get loads of spelling mistakes and poor grammar that it takes a bit of deciphering. Maybe it's indicative of the poor education and sloppiness of "todays generations", unlike us poor old codgers brought up in the 50's and 60's!!!!!!!

Back on topic please guys.