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#56824 12/06/11 9:24 PM
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Hi Everyone

Can anyone advise me on the purchase costs etc, of the following biomed database systems?

Ascribe E-MAT
Philips Optim
InfoHealth F2
SEMS
ERCI:HES
CWorks
Backtraq



#56824 12/06/11 9:24 PM
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Hi Everyone

Can anyone advise me on the purchase costs etc, of the following biomed database systems?

Ascribe E-MAT
Philips Optim
InfoHealth F2
SEMS
ERCI:HES
CWorks
Backtraq



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Hero
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Depends on how much you want to install, full options, equipment inventory, working stations etc. One system does not fit all! You could start off small and increase or you could go for broke and have a complete system installed including RFID expanding to patients as well as equipment.


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Yep, this is one of those "how long is a piece of string" questions.

To get any meaningful comparative data it may be necessary/best to define the scope an imaginary system (spec it up or down as much as you like) and then seek quotes from the various suppliers. I think you should be quite up front about why you want the quotes (academic use only) but ask them to be realistic in their costings.

To save you some time, perhaps someone on here would have a copy of a tender spec for a system that was used at their site. If the organisation's name and other identifiers were removed then perhaps you could use that as the starting point. Ladies and gents, anyone have such a document?

Last edited by DaveC in Oz; 13/06/11 8:10 AM. Reason: add last paragraph

Thoughts and information provided on this forum are mine and mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the policy of NSW Health. They may also be complete bollocks!!
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Hero
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Quote:
Can anyone advise me on the purchase costs etc, of the following biomed database systems?

Yes the people who sell them can give you a very accurate price and will be able to tell you the cost of any add-ons and options.
It means making a few more phone calls but the prices will be correct not just what some people think they are or what they were charged a few years ago when they bought it.
RoJo


My spelling is not bad. I am typing this on a Medigenic keyboard and I blame that for all my typos.
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hi Damian

Probably better off starting with recommendations.

We use backtraq and would not recommend it. User unfriendly, promised the earth delivered nothing. The problem is our system is attached to estates so its full of plumbing and fryers. If it is for your department only and you have the time to fill it it may be ok. Ours is not and it is full of bugs still.

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In the NHS scenario, if management were to look at things objectively, I think they may find they would be better off drawing up the spec about what it is they want their database system to actually do, buying all the hardware themselves, together with suitable (programming) software ... then taking a guy on for a year or so to implement it, iron out the bugs, etc. ... and carry out all the "changes" as the need for these become apparent.

I should imagine that it would end up being cheaper (than an "off the shelf solution"), the department would retain control (plus the source code) ... and if, after all that time the thing still "fails", then they (the management) would only have themselves to blame. smile


If you don't inspect ... don't expect.
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Hi Damian,

The above comments will be a bit hit and miss because some of the systems are modular based thus the more you pay, the more is activated according to your need. The programmers are just wanting to re-coup the time that they have spent developing a module to the customer’s satisfaction and ultimate sign off! If your not paying for it, do you have a say in it?

In most circumstances the most basic level of package offered should fulfil the needs of an EBME department.

The pricing model for the companies is no doubt very different, a mixture of both initial capital outlay followed with recurring revenue charges.

This is further complicated by shifting revenue payments into capital and vice versa over the period of the contract to fit the bill. Overall though you will pay the same for the specific product for that contract period.

If I were evaluating fairly across the board at how much the actual product itself costs then I would look at a 10 year life cycle for all the systems taking into account.

* Basic product cost (Minus any hardware costs / software licensing fees for the server engine i.e. sql server or advantage server)

* Purchase cost

* Annual fees (minus any OPTIONAL extras) but including any term discounts.

Once you take the fees out for the sql server that the software developer has to pay, the charges for their wages, support, development you will find that they don’t really make a great deal of money until the volume of sales is high. Unlike medical equipment manufacturers!!

Try for example calling in a ‘Medical’ company to do x days bespoke data migration with a team of programmers to fit your needs and its understandable that they need to meet their costs.

Broadly speaking the cheapest recurring payment for systems I have heard of have been in the region of £3,500 ranging up to £23,000. Often the recurring price from the products like the devices we manage depends on the quality of support we rightly demand and receive from the company.

I would not personally be happy to purchase a "Boxed" product off the shelf as there will be so much to frustrate me that may make doing the job more complex.

If a product for example saves 1 hour or more of time per week in efficiencies through ease of use, automation, reporting, etc (which is not a massive ask between databases!) then technically with 20 staff this has saved 20 hours or ~£15k of real term time.

We manage millions of pounds worth of equipment, expenditure, capital replacement, record keeping etc etc an in real terms use a "Medical Grade" database designed specifically around our management functions.

I'm not closed about the fact that the system we use will never the cheapest system on the market, but I would argue that it is one of the most efficient when used and set up correctly and needs very minimal maintenance (if any). The dynamic development of the product is more important to me than receiving a standard boxed package.

I would hope that most people using a Medical device equipment management tool regardless of company or in-house wouldn’t fall into the trap of cutting cost corners at the loss of productivity.

Rant over smile

Likely you won’t get firm prices from any of the companies due to the complexity of their pricing models and then you really wont be able to compare apples with apples as they say.

Perhaps a questionnaire about costs, development, functionality, automation, ease of use, implementation, support, audit trail may be more forthcoming for your study?

Last edited by Joe Emmerson; 14/06/11 10:01 PM.
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Damien, Did you ever complete your report ?

I would appreciate receiving a copy please if that is possible.

Many thanks
Roger

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