EBME Forums Forums Management Professional Issues Agenda For Change Ballot Results

Hi All

There is one possibility that hasn't really been considered a possibility.

The 'Society of Radiographers' have unanimously rejected the proposed agreement: 83% against A4C, 27% in favour of A4C. (67% turnout)

OOP's, that didn't go according to plan. DOH will have their work cut out to reverse this decision.

Department of Health seriously disappointed by this result?

Doogie

You may be interested to know that the Radiographers union was the only union to reject the rollout in the early implementer sites. I posted this fact when it happened so nothing new there.

This result is no real shock

Hiya Bioman

I thought it, might be worth bringing to our colleagues attention.

We all still have a choice, if you don't like the offer on the table, vote NO!

Doogie

I agree we do have a choice, what I was trying to put across was that DH would have been expecting this result from the Radiographers union.

It would be a different story if either the RCN or Unison had returned No votes. Both of these unions have subscribed to AfC as it will benefit the majority of it's members i.e. nurses and PAM's.

The union ballots may just be token jester as isn't implementsation still a requirement for Foundation Trusts present and future? Therefore if unions reject, Trusts will have to implement if they want Foundation status. Not sure if this is still the case as it was in the DH documents for Trusts considering applying as first wave Foundation Trusts.

This might be of interest, just released this week

AfC Guide for Staff Oct 2004

Re the Foundations Trusts issue

look at the following doc

Foundation Trusts

Look under section 1.7 (doc page 7, pdf page 11), Modernising pay and conditions

"NHS Foundation Trusts WILL implement Agenda for Change, offering staff the opportunity to transfer to a new, more flexible terms and conditions"

Could those in Foundation Trusts ask their powers to be for a comment on this, as on face value it looks like DH are pushing this through a side door irrespective of the union votes.

I work for a Foundation Trust and have been told (by the AfC Project Manager) that whether or not we start the implementation process in December depends on the outcome of the ballots.

What I'm not clear about is whether the national decision depends on an overall majority accross the workforce (in which case it's already been decided by the clinical vote !) - a majority of the unions - or whether if our union rejects it, we won't be offered it !

As with just about everything else in AfC - very confusing and unclear ! - Unless someone can throw some light on it ?

The point of A4C is to have everybody on the same terms and conditions.

It is an EU directive to have all jobs in the same company evaluated using the same scheme; this is to ensure equal pay for a job of equal worth.

The fact that one Union has rejected means that this can not be achieved.

More negotiating, a fresh look at working hours is the only way the Society of Radiographers is going to change their vote.

Foundation trusts must have the same terms and conditions as the rest of the NHS.

It can hardly be partnership working to force an agreement on any one group.

Doogie, not strictly true about trusts being on the same T&C as the rest of the NHS.

How do you explain Trusts like Sheffield who already have a local non-whitley pay system. If a member of staff loses out on AfC they have the right to remain on their local non whitley pay scale. Unfortunately only a few have safety net.

DH is already looking at unsocial hours (this was the gripe of the Radiographers) and have agreed to keep the existing system for paying unsocial hours until a new workable system can be developed.

So if it's backed by law (EU Directive) then why can't they simply impose the new terms and conditions ?

The majority of unions have accepted the latest proposal - and they've imposed changes and new contracts in the past. They only have to prove that they've negotiated - not come to an agreement - before they can impose changes to anything. It's like the "We're going to close the factory on the 1st Febuary. Would you like to come to the negotiations ?"