EBME Forums Forums Management Professional Issues Agenda For Change Degree level

Hi all. After the complete balls up of the last attempted job match (band 4 by the way!)we are currently going thro a re-match and are having problems with factor 2 - "Knowledge, training & experience". We are aiming to score a 6 in this factor but are having problems proving that our post requires a degree. Has anybody who has gone/going thro this process had any similar problems and what did you do to counter it?

Hi we have been put for ward for membership to the volentary register of clinical technologist and I believe that as a member of this the requirement becomes a degree level entry on job matching. worth while looking in to.
Paul

Louis has tried to join this Cliche! Louis holds an MSc. in a Medical Engineering Subject. Louis has never had so much as a one line reply.

LIII (Blackballed)

Louis

Write complaining to Jim Methven at:-

Medical Physics Dept
Cumberland Infirmary
Newtown Road
Carlisle
Cumbria

He's the registrar of the VRCT and should be able to shake somebody up if necessary.

Stew,

If you are carrying out all the tasks as listed on the national profile then you must have the qualifications + manufacturers equipment training + On the job training + experience equivalent to the qualifications listed on the profile.
If your manager does not agree that you have the equivalent knowledge then ask him to point out which of the tasks you are not capable of doing. If you are doing the job then you must have the equivalent level of knowledge or else you would not be able to do the work.
Be aware that according to the Job Evaluation Handbook a degree equivalent qualification is only band 5. To get band 6 you need additional specialist knowledge equivalent to post grad diploma. This additional specialist knowledge can be gained for example by working on anaesthetic machines or renal dialysis.
It is important to read carefully the national profile job statement as well as factors and the Job Evaluation Handbook.

Ken,
I like this one! If we as mere electronics engineers get a B5 and our illustrious Anaesthetic guys get a B6 all hell will let loose here...

Unfortunately the profiles do not help to make it clear that 'electronics' can be specialised too. All medical engineers require a knowledge equal to or greater than the examples given eg gas analysing and equipment handling blood products.

In my ignorance, can someone tell me what it is about Renal and Anaesthetics that make them 'specialist'?

I'm getting armed and ready for appeals because as I sit on job matching panels I know the decisions that can be reached by certain others.

As you say, what are we not doing that is included in the profile? That will become the issue when we are asked to fix machines like AS3s!

Andy

Having spent some time in a Renal Tech Department and having worked in Anaesthetics and with Anaesthetic Engineers, I hold a high regard to both sets of engineers.
However, your common & garden general EBME tech who responds to anything and everything MUST have a broader range of knowledge and skills.

Nothing like rocking the boat on a Friday afternoon!!

Andy

As regards renal specialist status, renal techs have to deal with patients still connected up to malfunctioning dialysis units. I don't know the current state of affairs on that front but it certainly used to include single handedly front line checking the unit whilst treatment was in progress with it, and if then necessary hand pumping the blood out of the set and back into the patient before disconnecting them and working intensively on the machine.

A good understanding of the physiology of renal patients is also essential. One of the pre-requisites was to have viewed a patient in surgery having a shunt put in. That I think was more than anything to make sure the tech wasn't likely to flake out in a tight situation.

I don't know about anaesthetic or ventilator specialists.


All the best

Marc

I would agree that the typical EBME tech does need to have a broader knowledge than the typical renal tech. However, whilst EBME tends to be largely bench work with faulty equipment etc sent down to the dept., renal techs usually have to respond in the clinical area NOW as there is a patient in the middle of a treatment. There is no time for call logging and all the other niceties of EBME.

In addition to this, many renal techs provide cover for patients dialysing at home, including out of hours on-call. They are often the first point of contact and this can routinely require the tech to advise the patient directly.

I could go on but its getting late on a Friday....

Surely someone who just works on renal machine should have to have further understanding of other equipment,
Likewise electronics need further understanding of anaesthesia or renal.
I think the comment that certain engineers etc. will not cope with working on patient connected machines is irrelevant, as what everyone does could have an immediate or detrimental effect to the patient hence the need for registration in the first place.
Therefore every one promotes there own corner but broader understanding should not be a level of how much you know in your own field, but your effectiveness at functioning and be accepted in one of the other fields.