EBME Forums Forums Management Professional Issues Agenda For Change A4C on call arrangements

Hi Everyone,
Just wondered if any of you out there are now being paid the new A4C rates for on call, as there seems to be some confusion as to how to work out the percentage from your rota?

We are being paid the AFC on call arrangements, There does not seem to any confusion as to the rates.
See table 2 of part 2:Pay of AFC Terms and conditions handbook
The rates quoted as uplift to salary for on call apply BUT they are an uplift on the base salary not on any other additonal payments (RRP etc).

If you are working at a Trust where there was a local agreement before AFC that gave better recompense it would be worthwhile in having those payments protected for the five year period

Hi Gaz

Yes we are, but only just. We should receive our first payment (and back pay) this month.
We had to put a grievance in to force the Trust to allow us to use the AFC arrangements. Being 1 in 3 we benefit substantially.
Look at the Terms and Conditions of Service Handbook section 2.21 if you have not already. Basically it’s calculated over a full rota or a 13 week period for irregular rotas.

Hi Dave,
This might sound an obvious question but, how many technicians are on your rota? as we have been told that a 1 in 4 rota works out, taking into account leave, as a 1 in 3 payment as regards A4C ie 9.5%?

There are only 3 of us on the rota. So we don’t have the problem.
It’s a good question, I guess it depends on how your payroll department collect the data, and apply the rules.
I can see that if someone is long term sick or on leave for several weeks you could drop to 1 in 3 over a 13 week reference period.
But when does the reference period start and is it reviewed for each months pay?

I seem to be asking more questions than giving answers.

Thanks Dave, it does become complicated! The reason behind all this, is that we work a 1 in 4 rota and have been paid 9.5% for 15 months. The original calculation for this was worked out by us and ratified by Human Resources and Finance. Now they have looked into it again and we have had letters saying that the calculation is incorrect and that we are only due 4.5% and also that we must repay the overpayment! Opinions please.

Hi All

We are on the afc pay scales yet still on the old on-call rates. Our personell dept tell us that nothing was agreed nationally regarding the Afc On call rates. So we are stuck and financially disadvantaged.Has anyone else had a similar response or have evidence of an agreed national deal.

Chimps

We had a similar problem.
The nation agreement states that groups of staff can choose to use existing arrangements (for up to 4 years while the AFC arrangements are reviewed) or switch to the AFC conditions from 01/10/2004.
The Final national Agreement and the Terms and Conditions of Service Handbook are available here http://www.nhsemployers.org/pay-conditions/agenda-for-change.cfm
Read section 2 of each.
Also take a look at the various union sites and ask your union rep.

In our case, staff side made a local agreement to retain all current arrangements without checking if anyone would be better off on the AFC conditions or indeed asking those doing on-call. Once we finally got them to admit it we had to put a grievance before the Trust would allow us to use the AFC rules.

Hi, to anyone who has moved over to the A4C on-call payments, did you get, or are you expecting any back pay from Oct 04 onwards?

Hi to everyone.
This is another silly question, how have the Trusts' implemented the bank holiday lieu time issue?
Are people getting 1, 2 or 3 lieu days for working a bank holiday? The original drafts of A4C made the 'like for like' reimbursement seem very favourable, ie 24 hours on call, 24 hours lieu time, or three 8 hour shifts. Unfortunately my Trust is in negotiation with the staff side to resolve this matter.