EBME Forums Forums Management Professional Issues The VRCT Website

Both, of course!

After all, when all is said and done, VRCT is more about Medical Physics than EBME, or biomed. I think that's the point that many may be missing!

No. It's about medical engineering. There's a scope of practice on the VRCT website that defines the sort of work carried out by "Clinical Technologists". EBME and Medical Physics are just names - typically given to departments in the NHS - the use of the term Medical Physics or EBME for the work we do is incorrect.

I rarely hear the name biomed used for technicians in the UK - that's something used by expats who've been exposed to individuals from the USA/Canada - typically in the Middle East or Africa. It's a name that has (had) some kudos in these countries that's been hijacked by CBET "wannabes" I reckon.

Not that I'm "knocking" the qualification - I can't possibly do that because I'm not officially considered as a medical technician myself - precisely because of a lack of registration/recognition/ certification/regulation, in my own country.

I'm OK with Medical Engineering as a term that describes the department that looks after and services the medical equipment for a hospital.
Clinical Technologist I'm not so happy about because by using the term Clinical implies that the person or job has some form of interface with patients, which is not always the case. In addition, by using the description of Clinical (as in technologist of scientist) also implies that you have undertaken some form of clinical training, which again is not the case.
The only group of "technicians" who I think have a right to use the term Clinical are the Perfusionists who have to undergo a form of clinical training. This is due to the fact that they carry out interventional procedures on patients.

Spot on, Kawa.

What's in a name? Personally I don't care about the name - but for regulation that's what is protected. Not everyone working in maintenance "just fixes kit" - although I have seen a couple of departments where technicians are organised like a battery-hens in little cubicles where equipment is fed to them by the supervisor just like they're in a factory.

Perhaps a look at the VRCT scope of practice is in order. The VRCT has to cater for a wide range of roles within medical engineering. To do this there are always going to be individuals who feel they don't cover all of the scope.

Attitudes and approaches to the provision of services very much depend on the way individual departments are organised, the range of skills within it, the people managing it, etc, etc. Most importantly what the demand is from the operators, i.e. clincians, Nurses and clinical technicians, i.e. clinical physiologists, etc.

It would be useful if customers knew what they could expect from departments like ours wouldn't it? A similar level of basic services provided by technicians; trained and qualified to a similar level who could give the same level of support perhaps?

I have always understood the word clinical to mean (roughly) "at the sickbed". Or if you like, "concerned with the treatment of disease in patients". You don't normally do clinical work at the workbench!

I've been asked to do plenty of work "at the sickbed" by clincians and Nurses however since the loss of "Crown Immunity" years ago and the fact that I'm not regulated, thus have little protection because I present a potential risk to the patient in this scenario, then this is much reduced - although, personally speaking, I'm happy to "advise" at the bedside if an operator is having difficulty, e.g. difficulty when monitoring a physiological parameter, due to faulty cables, etc.

I'm in clincial areas a lot of the time and so are my colleagues - providing advice and responding to issues concerning medical devices. We don't have to be "mopping patients brows" to be clinical - although I'm not particularly bothered what I'm called. I'm not keen on being called Bio-medical Engineer but my employer calls me that - I'm not actually an Engineer and not sure what Bio-Medical means.

Engineering departments do have a lot of input into the use of clinical devices that affect the level of patient care for example. Some get involved with adapting medical devices and systems, etc.

The term you used to define Clinical is "concerned with the treatment of disease in patients" is this not what medical devices are concerned with - the same devices we "fiddle about with" and give advice relating to? For many specialist clinical knowledge is required to do this job. Specialist clinical knowledge does not mean I have to be a Doctor or Nurse.

Yes, Richard, and your point nicely reinforces mine (given recently at another thread) that we shouldn't come under "Engineering", but rather "Nursing", "Medical", or whatever.

Biomeds are concerned with supporting clinical users (rather than patients, by the way), whilst engineers (hospital engineers, building services, facilities etc.) are concerned rather with "mopping the brow" ("fiddling about", even) of pumps, motors, boilers et al!

What does EBME stand for, by the way ...?

Across the NHS departments like ours are involved at the highest levels because of the perceived risk associated with medical devices. The problem is that what we do can put the patient and operators at risk. That's why regulation, i.e. VRCT is considered necessary. The employer has decided that regulation is necessary and that this will be carried through, whatever you or I think about that.

EBME - Electronics and Bio-Medical Engineering - What does Bio-Medical engineering mean?