EBME Forums Forums Management Medical Equipment Management Beadhead Gases

Hiya,
The hospital were I work has a mix of flowmeters, cylinder regulators and suction from really old to new and we deal with different companies and this can be a bit of a pain.

If youve standardised or considered it what company and models have you gone for and why? What are the pros and cons?

Dealing with one company and standard products has benefits but I’m not 100% which products and which supplier yet.

Anyone got any ideas for the best balance for products, support, warranty, accessories and consumables? Giving reasons for choice of supplier/s of course!

Any ideas what a proper evaluation of this sort of kit should include?

All ideas welcome!
Thanks.

You don't want much, do you Rob?

If you haven't got the time to do it yourself, why don't you hire a consultant for a week or two to survey what you've got, check-out the market, and make recommendations?

Meanwhile, check-out Therapy Equipment.

Hello Rob,

Standardistion is sensible apporach to take. You need to carry out a survey of your current stock, and identify where you have been buying from recently. If you have 1000 units and 500 are mixed and 500 from a single supplier - you are already half way there and common sense dictates that you continue to buy from them and scrap the older units. If you have a complete mishmash -tender for the best deal. Some companies may be willing to carry out an audit free of charge if they think they are in with a chance of selling to you.

We decided to standardise on Therapy Equipment kit about five years ago and have been very happy.

However even now, strange bits from various manufacturers still come to light (on a depressingly frequent basis), my favourite is the old green Ohmeda flowmeters which i know we have not purchased in the last 17 years.

Lee

Hiya,

Standardisation is a good thing but if your tied into exclusive purchasing contracts, etc, backing the wrong horse can be expensive and cause problems if product cost a lot and a companys support costs are high or the turnaround time for purchases, spares and repairs/refurbishment is long.

Requirements and costs need to be carefully looked into prior to signing on the dotted line. What we want is a supplier that can provide for most if not all of our needs provides a decent product thats fit for purpose with good warranty and low maintenance product and gives good product support at a reasonable cost.

Carnet stuff seems to be expensive and we hardly see any sales people although Ive seen their products in use in hospitals and they appear to be good quality. I'm not convinced about the need for firestop products or their commitment to supporting customers though. Id say expensive IMO.

Therapy Equipment sell modern kit thats got a good warranty and needs minimal maintenance. Ive been told the support and sales is good as well. I'm not keen on the floor standing electrical suction and some other cheap looking flowmwters and some of their resus suction and flowmeter kits are a bit gimmiky.

I like their cylinder regs preset flow meters and entonox demand regs - their sturdy. Repairs and refurbs are reasonably priced so i'm told. Id say a good balance IMO.

The Oxylitre stuff is in need of modernisation (looks old fashioned and is easy to damage. Products used with oxygen need to be free of swarf clean and packed to prevent damage from new (hint, hint, Oxylitre). Thier mikey-mouse regulators and dial gauge flowmeters are easy to damage if their knocked and not easy to read when on cylinders lying down on the bottom of trolleys.

I like thier dial regs for cylinders with their rubber coated gauge which is "see in the dark" and metal nipples though - more sturdy. Id say could do better and products are getting on a bit - service and support appears to be a bit "take it or leave it" IMO.

Whats really important is representatives who're interested in selling the core product are authorised to give discounts for volume sales and give good flexible service to existing customers not pushing their expensive stuff. Visiting regularly to arrange for repairs and refurbs whilst picking up orders and stuff can go a long way as far as I'm concerned.

Sounds like you've already got it all sussed out, Rob. Let us know how you get on, Mate!

Personally, I wouldn't bother with single flowmeters in wall outlets - a complete waste. Stick to twins, that makes them suitable to be used anywhere, especially where a patient is on oxygen and also nebulised drugs. Saves the nurses pulling the tubing off and therefore reduces faults by not having them swapped around to suit a particular patient

Interesting points Rob.

Here in Calderdale we went through a similar procedure whilst moving into our new PFI hospital.

We had quotes from, Therapy Equipment, Ohmeda, Oxylitre and East. Ohmeda's product was fine but at 3 times the cost of the nearest competitor was out of the question. East came in 3rd on a cost basis leaving Oxylitre and Therapy Equipment.

The TE quote was slightly lower than Oxylitre but the product was very flimsy looking and plasticky (poor word but fits the description) On the other hand the Oxylitre product is basically brass and from the ones we already had in use in the hospital was able to take a lot of the knocks our staff like to subject equipment to.

We have had majority Oxylitre for 6 years now (low flowmeters are Carnet) and are happy with them. The support is as good as it can be, we service "in house" (I have actually been able to speak to thier engineers to clarify points and get tips). The only downside I can think of is that they do not supply a service manual. So torques etc have to be noted whilst on the service course.

Hope that helps

Mick

Hiya,

Thanks for the comments Mick.

I think you've hit on a few of the reasons why I'm slightly biased towards Therapy. Probably because we dont service inhouse. First theirs the cost of the product then theres the service side of things and support.

What Ive found is that therapy kit is actually fit for purpose and robust. Some of the flowmeters and stuff do look a bit flimsy but when you look at the stuff thats warrantied for 7 years return to base repairs and virtually bombproof then its built for the job.

Considering cylinder regulators I like the therapy dial regulators. Theyre plastic cased but theyre brass bodies underneath. The bodies and gauges do get damaged over time but they are more clearly marked than Oxylitre stuff when looking for service due dates info and serial numbers etc.

Comparing prices of product and accessories then therapy is slightly cheaper for the products we would be looking at. Given the balance between cost and quality I think for the products we need in volume that therapy has the edge for cost of product and parts and servicing/refurbishing in quantities.

A lot of the therapy products such as cylinder regs has common parts throughout and because servcing costs are relatively low/fixed priced and turnaround is fast then Id prefer therapy to provide maintenance for a fixed cost per item.

Oxylitre service is probably not as suitable for us whether thats return to base or on site. I have heard of and occasionally seen issues with damage of product from new and after repairs.

The Mikey mouse bullnose regulators with flow guage do get damaged easily as far as i have seen. The company attitude from what Ive seen and heard is a bit "take it or leave it" IMO. Maybe thats just my take on it.

Problem is we dont service inhouse. We only do stuff like identify damage/leaks change o-rings and bodok seals. On balance for a variety of reasons not just build of product I think therapy has the edge on prices and service.

Not familiar with Ohmeda or East products or service nowadays. Be interesting to hear more about these from others. Does anyone know if Carnet are in a position to provide for all a hospitals needs such as suction flowmeters etc if they were chosen as a preferred supplier for instance?

Hi all

I agree with the main thread here – Therapy Equipment are a sound company that offer a wide range of therapy equipment products at competitive prices & are well supported, I’ve not had a problem in the 18 years I’ve been dealing with them. However, I’m always looking at alternative companies should the need arise, for me one of the areas many fall short is – not supplying the full range of equipment

i.e. they supply high & low suction but not thoracic suction - etc etc

Through the reply chain, Graham mentioned using twin flowmeters in each oxygen outlet - something we do where re-breath bags are used, but twins are not fitted for the purpose of nebulising. As an engineer not a clinician, a while ago I asked the question of our Respiratory Nurse Specialist – is it OK for patients that don’t need oxygen or aren’t written up for oxygen to be nebulised on it – the answer I got was NO!

If the patient isn’t written up for oxygen then medical air or a compressor type nebuliser should be used.

It’s interesting that HTM 02 (Part A) Table 11 - Provision of terminal units, recommends an expansion of the provision of MA terminals particularly in the in-patient areas.

Confusion!!!!!


Regards

Steve