EBME Forums Forums Maintenance Technical Assistance Electrical Safety Check

Not sure on the PC's. They are definetly not classed as "Medical Equipment" as they are maintained by IT and not us. They look, fell and operate like all the other standardized PC's in the trust, and connect to the network in the same way, however to say they are "medical grade" I have no idea.

We test to medical kit to 60601 at the last count, although from memory that has been superceeded, to which the name evades me.

Oh and you tend to get high leakage from PC's, for afterall they are designed to be PAT tested as PC's!

Cheers

Indeed! That's because they are PC's (I should imagine).

So ... what do the Gods of Risk Assessment have to say about all this?

How about ... for the sake of expediency, we now have electrically sub-standard non-medical equipment being introduced (in increasing numbers) into the very area that us old-school biomeds have regarded on a par with hallowed ground since time (on the biomed scale that is) began!

And (by the way) what do these toys do to the LIM's (in cases of isolation power systems being used)? My guess is that they set them off at "half cock" straight away. Not good, in my opinion.

The "latest code" you're thinking of is most likely IEC-62353, I should imagine.

while not wanting to risk life and limb but getting in the middle of this may I be so bold as to say, if they must have this leaky monster (the pc) in the middle of the OR then, folks, use an isolation transformer, that way we can all rest easy.

Well ventured, that Brave Man. Yes. Absolutely. Without doubt!

And ... how many more times does it need to be spelled out?

But leaving all this to the "IT Department" is not the recommended path to Nirvana, in my opinion.

For the serious student of matters relating to electrical safety (and testing thereof) of medical equipment, the use of (and the need for) isolating transformers in operating theatres, and other related (but no less interesting) issues have all been covered in varying degrees of detail at earlier threads on this forum. Such enquiring minds as these need look no further than the excellent Search facility thoughtfully provided by those who manage the site!

I would provide links to a few such threads myself, but (alas) I have already exceeded my allotted hour of discussion for today ... and (believe it or not) have a mountain of mind-numbing tasks to attend to.

In my experience the PCs used in theatres and UITs are just ordinay commercial computers, and as such are high earth leakage current devices.Connect them to the IPS at your peril!
WE need to move to battery powered wirelessly connected devices like the sort of thing that Parity Medical have on their web site.

Yes. Indeed. The kind of little dodad *devices that I like to fiddle about with myself, in fact.

Careful, though Brian ... someone will be shouting about radio-born interference before you know it. And they would have a point, would they not?

Bluetooth ... adequate for the medical environment (or not)? Please discuss!

* That is, what was wrong with the Psion Series 3 organiser? Or, indeed, the GameBoy ... if all we are trying to do is keep the anaesthetist awake?

However, in the interests of parity, we shall need to source an alternative. And, don't forget Tim Gee.

And (lastly) ... medical-quality (that is, meeting specified construction requirements, certain low levels of leakage current etc.) isolation transformers. Yes. Very good. Now we can anticipate the next question, can we not? That is "how do we carry out EST on systems that contain an isolation transformer"?

Anyone care to have a go? As I say, I have other pressing matters to attend to.

Hi All

I would be very tempted to have a look at the instructions for use of the PC and see if it specifically excludes being used in a medical environment - as is the case with many pieces of domestic equipment - really difficult to choose a UPS at times.

Also, I had two customers with Welch Allyn 12 lead ECG unit that plugged into a computer - not a ambligatory monitor but proper 12 lead ecg module.
One customer used the unit on a laptop - and I had on worries with leakage current.
The second customer had the unit plugged into a desktop with CRT monitor and printer - and of course failed all earth leakage tests.

As for Bliuetooth, Nonin have got monitors that use bluetooth and Welch Allyn/Propaq use 802.11a,b, or g for there acuity systems.

I have not heard of Tim Gee, but having logged on, I must say that it is a very helpful site. I have registered, and would encourage anyone else in the EBME game to check it out too!

Hello All, been away for couple of days.

To answer Tonys question, Yes the patient is connected to the ambulatory recorder while the recorder is connected to the standard Desktop PC (in Theatres). The reason for this setup is to monitor bladder pressure while stimulating the sacral nerve on paraplegic patients.
As this is a standard PC, performing an electrical safety test could result in damaging the hard disk.....all views welcome!!!

... views already rendered ... use the PC via an isolating transformer, and carry out tests as appropriate.

I might add that it would have helped if you had given us the full picture right at the beginning!

Brian ... yes, the stuff that Tim talks about is the future of medical equipment, I would have thought (and hope to see).