EBME Forums Forums Management Training occupational standards

Cheers, Chris, interesting though I'm still a bit scarred from my BEng. I'm not quite ready for such a big undertaking yet. I couldn't complete the honours part of my degree because work took over and I've now got a six-month old to contend with! Not conducive to any type of serious study I'm sure you'll agree.

I think you're right about the 'just to say you've got one' aspect. As I've said earlier, the MSc that some of the guys I know are doing seems a case in point. I know the guys are working hard on it but I do get the feeling it's not necessarily worth the paper it's printed on. There is also the issue of people being accepted straight on to a Masters without possessing a degree beforehand. I'm not sure how this would be viewed by prospective employers.

On the other hand (and for balance), some of the more outstanding biomeds I ever met were what you might call "perpetual students" (or maybe that should be "scholars"). Not in the sense of formal courses and qualifications (some of the best blokes had next to none), but rather the enquiring mind set, thirst for knowledge (just had to know), real understanding, mastering their art, enjoyment of discussions with their peers ... and stuff like that. As I have been known to remark before, successful biomed is more about personal qualities (attitudes, mainly) than anything else.

You just need to set aside the pen when picking up the screwdriver (and vice versa). If you don't have the schematics - sit down and think about it, then sketch out your own!

I believe that "learning by doing" always works well. Even experienced techs spend time mulling stuff over on completion of a job. "Ah yes, now I understand what the machine is doing" and/or "why did that work? ... how could I have been more efficient"? We used to call it "the debrief" - or, if you like, "follow up". That's how you really learn (if, that is, you're interested in doing practical, useful - paying - work)! And happily it's become a whole lot easier these days, with the wealth of the internet available.

And don't forget (as Richard Feynman said):- "What one fool can understand, another can"!

In short, a bloke would learn more of real value in a single field trip to Africa than on any number of BSc's, MSc's ... or any other Sc's.

Geoff, I would not put Umish as one of 'our' blokes, neither would I put him as one of 'your' blokes.

And so the mystery rolls on.

Tune in soon, folks, for the next "exciting" installment!

It's not what you know Geoff it's what you do with it! There's a lot of "perpetual students" who when presented with a new piece of equipment will sit down and read a 200 page manual from cover to cover before even touching it.

Above BEng level your expected to gain a sifting ability and to decide what information is relevant to the task and what can be referred to later. This is the ability that some people just pick up whereas others need to be spoon-feed. It's a bit similar to the transition between school level and graduate/college student where previous they've been told to do things and now they have to make more decisions for themselves.

I can't argue with you there, Chris.

But I hope that's not the kind of "perpetual student" implied in my earlier post.

"Above BEng level ..." - well, I must be more "advanced" than I had previously imagined ... I was able to think for myself "above" C&G level (and so, if I remember rightly, were my mates)!

But that's enough from me. I tire easily these days. Especially when hearing about "educated idiots" (yawn)! And I certainly don't have the time (nor the inclination) to "spoon feed" anybody!

It's not a case of thinking for your self, when you did C&G I image you went to classes and were taught from a set course. You might of done projects but you weren't told read this text and then search of more information. (then again perhaps it was a very advanced C&G)

The flaw I was describing is the person who takes in too much information to actually do the task at hand and thus takes weeks to do a task instead of days.

Yes. They're known as "Jobsworths". But to be honest, I have never met such a person (in our line of work) outside of the NHS!

Have you?

Of course C&G was structured. All good (proper) courses are (or should be). But there again, isn't that what this thread is meant to be about (see Rob's original post)?

Jocky - It is not suprising that your comment that the Arborfield course is bad. Coupled with a fast paced procurment regime that forgets that there is a maint burden and a general lack of will to develop the course has contributed to its degradation over the years.

A procurement process without any regard for the subsequent maintenance burden was the norm* back in my day as well, Fordy. In fact I used to spend a lot of my time trying to recover from that sorry state of affairs. One lot (budget) bought the kit, whilst it was left to another lot (budget) to maintain it. With very little (if any) communication between the two parties.

However, I would add that my experiences in that regard have not really differed much since hanging up my pace-stick (many years ago now), so I can only conclude that, regrettably, it goes with the turf of being involved in biomed tech support whichever "enterprise"** we are involved in. In short, the medics buy the kit, and we get lumbered with sorting out the rubbish when it starts going pear-shaped. Plus ça change!

But - procurement, maintenance planning and training the techs are different branches of the tree, surely? If the once renowned Arborfield course has now become (what's that phrase that gets used so much use these days?) ... not fit for purpose; then let it be consigned to the bin of history (just like so many of the traditions that have served so well in the past).

Lack of planning for the maintenance burden didn't matter too much back in the days when we trained blokes to actually fix the kit. The "can do" approach (or mind set, if you like). These days (from what I have heard) it sounds more like "call in the contractors"! Just like civvy street in fact.

* I'm talking about medical equipment here, of course, rather than the "green kit".
** Nice Baboon Speak word there.