EBME Forums Forums Free discussion Free discussion Increment freeze - Merry Christmas

I have been slagged off many a time on this forum, Dave, but have just let them roll on many occasions ... but this statement about "what I think" is a new one, I must admit.

Had you said "as Geoff seems to think", I may have let that one pass (even though even that would not have been true). But as I can't do that now, here are a few more rejoinders:-

1) How about rephrasing part of your post to:- "because inefficient management has been allowed to develop and "bamboozle" the public into believing that they cannot survive without the NHS"?

2) I believe I said "if there are any compulsory redundancies of biomed techs working in the NHS over the next couple of years ... I will eat my shorts"! So what has anything that may have happened during the past three years got to do with that?

3) If anyone makes a claim on shorts-eating, then I'm afraid I shall need "full disclosure" of the circumstances of any compulsory redundancies. Being TUPED into a PFI position, turning down another position within the NHS, or some other sleight of hand won't cut the mustard, I'm afraid.

4) Surely by now everyone must have noticed that the country is in the mire, and that all of us need to muck in to get that sorted out?

5) Here's one of the things that I do think:- it is always difficult to take things away, whether they were deserved in the first place or not. The previous regime effectively bribed larges swathes of the population (and opened the door to hundreds of thousands of extra "compliant voters"). But now we all have to suffer because of the sheer incompetence (or worse) of the previous government, and the idiocy and self-interest (or worse) of the electorate.

6) I don't believe in Special Cases myself, and never have. We are all having to tighten our belts. So why should NHS workers (or any others in the Public Sector) be exempt?

Sounds to me like those "Very senior Managers" have got you all just where they want you, then.

Are they fat? Probably. Are they lazy? Who knows. But I very much doubt that they are worth "circa £80k" of any tax-payers money. In fact, who would be?

My understanding is that the NHS is being asked to make "efficiency savings" of 4% each year. Shouldn't be too hard to cut the payroll down by that amount, I would have thought.

You are quite right Geoff, I shouldn't say what you may be thinking, people are able to work out for themselves your take on things from your posts.

Do you mean in your point {1} the public can survive without the NHS. I'm sure all the private, vet type, healthcare institutions out there at the moment are queueing up to take the swine flu patients.

NHS isn't perfect, far from it, but I haven't seen a credible alternative yet in the UK.

At what point after a Biomed tech is made redundant will you be devouring your shreddies, just so I can book a front row seat.

Everyone keeps saying we are in the mire, couldn't argue, but sick people keep showing up expecting to be treated, NHS of course Geoff, probably only healthy people show up in the private sector, no reduction in front line services, but it is happening, budgets have to be cut, but as Sean says drugs budget/spending still keeps rising, cost of PFI keeps increasing, capital replacement costs still rising.

All these are free market CONSERVATIVE approaches. I only highlight conservative because you seem to be blaming the "last lot" and voters.

Surely the mess was created by the banking and financing sector and is only being propped up by the "common man" or voter as you put it.

The Irish government have just announced that they will withdraw support for the Allied Irish Bank if they pay out the large bonuses promised to their employees.
Maybe our own Government should have done the same thing here

Managers on £80k plus, believe me there are lots of them.
The point is that they are targetting the people on £22k as being the problem. Don't know about the 4% savings Geoff, figures I have seen relate to about 10% - 15%

Is that achievable? Is that what good investigative journalism should be "rooting out" ?

If you obviuosly believe that 4% figure, and you're so well read, then what hope for the rest of Joe Public

I've already given an opinion on £ 80k managers ... fire the lot of them! The only people who will notice the difference would be the bean-counters who issue the pay-cheques.

But if I ever get called upon to eat my shorts, I shall be expecting the Barbeque Sauce to be funded out of the generous severance package that any redundancy will no doubt provide.

Those of us on £ 22k (or less) in the Private Sector don't get that, you know. We just get told:- "Sorry, Mate ..." etc., etc.

Meanwhile, whilst you are counting your blessings, I don't believe any figures spewed out by the government (any government) myself, Dave. Do you?

But how about taking a peek at the Bigger Picture?

Let's pretend, just for a moment, that we all enjoy a healthcare system that is "the envy of the world", alongside Armed Forces that "are the best in the world" ("punching above their weight" and all the rest), a "social security" system that funds "lifestyle choices" from the "cradle to the grave", a wonderful police "service" (that doesn't protect us), fire and rescue services manned by blokes with two jobs, and whom we pay to sleep, "welcoming" lost souls from across the world running from something or other in the lands of their birth ... I could go on, but I expect you catch my drift ...

... all that (and more) has to be paid for somehow. So, where does all that funding come from? Where is the Wealth created? All that from a country which doesn't actually produce anything of any substance (apart, that is, from battalions of disaffected youngsters)?

I don't support any particular political party. To my mind they are all a bunch of shysters. However ... I like to believe I have sufficient common sense to realise that, when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging. Can anyone doubt that we, as a country, could have simply carried on as a nation, recklessly spending money that we didn't have, on causes often bordering on lunacy?

I read your first sentence, which is relevant.
After that, I’m afraid I lost interest, as once again you lost the plot.

Geoff, do you have to turn every post into a rant against our society in general. If you dislike being in this country so much, may I suggest you consider moving abroad?
You seem to be very bitter about, well, everything.

I'm simply responding to Dave's overnight comments!

If I sound bitter (which I certainly don't feel myself), it's probably because, like millions of others (I should imagine), I feel I have been betrayed.

Society? What's that? Margaret said that there's no such thing. These days, most folk think in terms of the individual (that is, themselves), wouldn't you say?

"Lost the Plot"? Once again I ask:- what's the Plan?

177 posts in 30 days, are you actually in employment Geoff!

Welcome to the forum, Mike (after three years of lurking).



Why ... are you looking for recruits, then?

177, I suppose that would be difficult if you only worked from 9-3:30 Monday to Friday.

And how long to make a post, on average? A minute? Two?