EBME Forums Forums Maintenance Spare Parts Medical Equipment on eBay

Hi all.

Well, as a joke our equipment trainer suggested that all our missing Alaris Asena CC pumps were probably on sale on eBay. Out of complete curiousity I decided to look...

There is an Alaris Asena CC Mark III on sale. The seller is a tedcigar of Newport, and he seems to have quite a few random medical devices among rather a lot of random tat - religious badges and second-hand watches!

It does not miraculously locate the 50 or so pumps we seem to be short of, but does make me wonder how he got the stuff he has, and what sort of screwball is he happy to sell to?

Another seller seemed to have plenty of military grade paramedic paraphernalia, including two FR2 defibs and a seriously stuffed kit bag that can probably service a decent field hospital theatre! What would the lads in Afghanistan think if they found their teams short of just such items? Once again, where the hell did this person get the stuff - or the permission to take the stuff - to sell it himself?

I can understand selling to things like the Hilditch or Amalthea Trust, or sending stuff to the Third World charities so that it does some good in the right hands, but in the wrong hands some of these things could be a complete liability.

You are correct on a couple of statements but also missing a few things out.

Yes, it does happen with people selling stuff on Ebay but this was more so in the past

You seem to forget that there is more users then just the NHS/Hospitals

You have Vets who 9/10 times NEVER buy new equipment and also resell there equipment on such sites as Ebay.

Then we have 3rd party contractors who could buy/take what a hospital/surgery/other wish to get rid of..so there is quite a few ways to get hold of equipment like you stated.

In my history i have seen hospitals going to throw equipment in a skip and a medical contractor company offerered money for the equipment so they were allowed to take it.. and this is just from what i have seen so im sure there is many other ways to get hold of this without it just being "taken" like you think.

Trusts have been known to purchase equipment off Ebay if "said" equipment was in suspect of being there property in the first place.

Right hands ... wrong hands. Who is to judge? No-one is forcing anyone to buy that stuff.

Screwball? Don't you mean "the highest bidder" (just as long as s/he can stump up the funds)? And why "screwball", anyway? Maybe the buyer is a vet, or a tech looking for spares to fix charity kit ... there are many possibilities.

Equipment (both new and used - plus parts, manuals, and all the rest) gets bought and sold the whole time. That's how the commercial world works. Medical equipment on eBay has often been bought at one of the auction houses. With Hilditch being the most prominent. Some others have been known to offer ex-MOD test equipment.

But when you sell equipment to Hilditch et al ... what do you think happens to it after that? Hint:- it gets sold on, to the highest bidder, at auction. The buyers are often dealers, so the items are usually sold on again (and possibly, again). The eBay crowd are generally small time operators, in the main. It is doubtful that any of them add value to the equipment being sold (by having it serviced, for example, or finding a manual to accompany it).

Meanwhile, donating equipment (to charities sending good used equipment overseas, for example - and I urge you to do just that!) is a completely different ball-game. But one that has nothing to do with chancers trying to make a killing on eBay. In short, folk involved with the charities tend not to be motivated primarily by money.

Anyway, wherever that gear stuff has come from ... it almost certainly won't have been Afghanistan. Unlike (it seems) the NHS, HM Forces have systems (not to mention mind-sets) in place that track and maintain all assets.

So, may I suggest that the real questions you need to ask are along the lines of:-

1) Why have your pumps gone missing?
2) Have they been stolen (how come, and who are the suspects)?
3) When are proper property management procedures going to be put in place?

... and stuff like that.

The thing that concerned me is where these car-boot-sale type sellers get the equipment from; diving in hospital bins? There is someone like that near us who does the same in our bins, usually on a weekend when there is no-one around to police the skips. He takes everything, including parts we have thrown away that are obviously broken.

I once saw his open-backed trailer parked in a residential street with two hoists still with our Trust stickers on them (so the Trust has probably not had the decision over whether or not they were scrapped, because we as the official decommissioners would have removed the stickers).

He has even *allegedly* stolen twenty brand new cot-sides that the Huntleigh engineer had dropped off only three minutes beforehand ready to repair a load of beds!

The only safe use for medical equipment sold over eBay is as a stage/TV prop, unless the buyer is really going to make sure it is serviced and ready for re-use on a patient, human or otherwise. Vets charge the earth - they have absolutely no need to scavenge for equipment anyway.

Just this once, I think that the American law is correct. You may only sell a medical device in the US "to or under the direction of a medical physician". Or some such wording. That way, it should not be in the hands of some magpie out to make a fast buck with no regard to the consequences.

It sounds a bit like your Trust needs to sort out its security!

Theft is theft. We have laws about it, you know.

But on your last point:- what about equipment being donated on the understanding that it is destined to needy folk in Africa (for example)?

Clare, On the Vet side of this subject not that it IS the subject but still, Vet pratice owners are not as "rich" as you may think..

The service may cost a fair bit but they have alot to also pay back out with regards to medicine,equipment,property,staff etc

A vet working in a vet pratice is on a good wage but in reality a Dr or some one high up in the NHS still earns more..

Vet's also love a good bargin.. known for being a bit "tight" with there money.. they dont flash it about like a Jr Dr with his fancy clothes and up in the clouds look about him..a Vet is normally a scruffy looking asentric type of guy..a more interesting person to talk to

Anyway.. off topic ... ill let Geoff keep it on track

Geoff, I heartily support donating equipment to charities for use in Africa and elsewhere. But those donations could and should be made directly from the hospital, or if they feel that (as has previously been debated elsewhere on ebme.co.uk) they would retain too much responsibility, via some proper third party like Hilditch/Amalthea Trust. The original post was about some small-time tinker selling pin badges...

I agree that theft is theft, but if when we report things up the chain nothing is done, this will never change. Believe me, we have passed it on, but the thief keeps returning like a bad curry.

Vets are NOT POOR - pet insurance guarantees that they can charge what they like and get paid, regardless of whether it reflects the true costs and a fair profit. Try having to take the cat for two consultations for every booster... At £40 per ten minute consultation that is ridiculous, and it is not covered by the insurance. The first is just so that the vet can confirm what you knew all along - it's booster time.

Clare, never said they "were" poor..

Vets still do not earning the same type of money as some of those i stated before though which my point was aimed at

Its easy to think Vets are expensive when you pay for a time you need the service unlike the NHS which we pay monthly for and take for granted.

If you had no choice but to use Bupa or even pay for the NHS you might not think so badly of vets

My dig is at car tyres and bloody electric companies...ow oh and sky putting there bill up by another £2 a month.. going off track again

How's things up north anyway clare? as wet as what we have it here in the midlands?

I'm sure that every tax-payer will be heartened to hear that!

Don't you have a police force where you are, then?

Lets be honest it doesn’t matter quiet as much if vets kill there patients. Hospitals are public buildings and difficult to police unlike privet companies or military bases. But then again........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4898080.stm
http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/army_s_lost_guns_end_up_on_streets_1_1410487

Not seen any of these for sale on eBay though.