EBME Forums Forums Management Professional Issues Agenda For Change What's Coming Next?

Neil without collective bargaining you can end up paying a premium for the best people and paying peanuts to those who aren't up to the job. Found that out at one place I was made redundant from, turns out I was paid twice the amount of my colleague who wasn't really that crap, just got on everybody's nerves. (yes performance pay is excellent for bullying and harassment)

Pay people for the actual job their doing, not if you think employee A works slightly better than employee B, where they live or more likely because you don't like employee B.

Geoff what your describing is on the job training, everybody has to go through that when they start a new job, nursing it's slightly different and requires years after they leave uni. Perhaps a better comparision would be a cleaner, you don't need to train for 7 years to be a cleaner so why pay them like they do?

@Neil:- "From each according to his contribution: to each according to his need". So glad you have joined us, Mate!

@Chris:- have you ever wondered if you were made redundant because they reckoned they were paying you too much?

But no, I'm not talking about OJT. I'm talking about continuous learning. "Learning whilst doing", if you like.

Any or all workers who strive for improvement carry on learning throughout their working lives. Yes "even" cleaners!

Not everyone is a Genius or academically inclined, but as I believe either Mr.Rolls or Mr.Royce may have uttered:- "Whatever is done well, however humble, is noble"!

And lastly ... do cleaners make the same pay as nurses at your place, then?

Yes Geoff with hindsight it was obvious, if a company has a pay performance scheme the safest people come redundancies are going to be those with mediocre performance who have never had a single pay rise in perhaps the last 10 or 15 years they've been working there.

Continuous learning would also be include and expected of someone who was fully fulfilling their role. I've just looked it up and what nurses have just after training is a Preceptorship something that the cleaner wouldn't but the whole system is modelled around the nurse not the cleaner.

So no the cleaners aren't on the same band as nurses, but for most staff except for those on the lowest band, it is assumed that it will take 7 years before the person is fully carrying out the role.

Actually thinking about it were back to the point mentioned earlier that they want to knock some spine points off the top of the band, so you'll be considered to be fullfilling the role earlier and to progress any further you'll have to show excellent performance each year.

Mediocre performance, no pay rise, whose fault is that?
Cleaners are learning all the time, new methods, new materials etc.It is only LAZY people who don't learn and try to improve themselves.

Welcome to the New Mediocracy! It's the way things are here these days, Neil. There are no such beings as losers, and every aspect of life is "dumbed down" to make sure that remains the case! Nanny uses weasel words like "inclusion", don't you know!

There are no such things as problems (only "issues"), and no-one ever carries the can when things go wrong (as they so often do) ... only "lessons shall be learned".

And lazy? Come, come. "Motivationally challenged", surely? And (again) that will be someone else's fault:- "disadvantaged" background, cat died when I was two years old, don't like Tuesdays, Granny never loved me ... Man, the list (of excuses) is endless.

Meanwhile, we may as well link ... if only to get back on topic!